Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible • Hacker News Board

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#251

Post by Zambyte » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:56 AM UTC

laurentlb wrote: post #209

Zambyte wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firefox is owned by Mozilla which is not owned by Google in any way. Who owns Mozilla? Put another way, if Google stops funding Mozilla, will it still exist? The only reason Firefox exists is because Google wants something they can point to in court and say "look! we're not a monopoly!"

> if Google stops funding Mozilla, will it still exist? If Google stops funding Mozilla, would they manage to get another deal, e.g. with Bing? If so, the power of Google would be limited.

Why do you think Microsoft wouldn't just let Mozilla fold and Firefox fail?

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#252

Post by concordDance » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:56 AM UTC

detourdog wrote: post #92

mozball wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iirc remote attestation is reliant on hardware attestation, which means these websites will only run on authorized DRM-enforcing hardware and architectures. Only Intel, AMD, Qualcomm and the like. No open-source firmwares, architectures or hardware.

It's important to remember they are only commercial efforts. If you can value something other than money it doesn't matter what the corporate web is doing compared to human ingenuity and the internet. Let them waste their time and money write their specs.

Unfortunately, the corporate Web has managed to monopolise how we communicate and learn about things (Facebook, reddit, twitter, YouTube, news sites, etc).

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#253

Post by ezoe » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:57 AM UTC

Adverblessly wrote: post #32

It isn't just "make ad-blocking (near) impossible" as the current title of the submission suggests. It is: Make browsing the internet possible only on Chrome, Safari or Edge (with no modifications or extensions). No competition allowed in browsers. Make browsing the internet possible only on macOS, Windows, Android or iOS (no custom Android distributions, definitely no LineageOS or GrapheneOS or whatever). No competi…

So, it's Secure Boot to the web.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#254

Post by detourdog » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:57 AM UTC

mozball wrote: post #165

detourdog wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to remember they are only commercial efforts. If you can value something other than money it doesn't matter what the corporate web is doing compared to human ingenuity and the internet. Let them waste their time and money write their specs.

As an example, Can you recommend a good tech/hacker video channel that is available somewhere else other than Youtube?

That is why I call for federated publishing tools. Believe it or not I plan on launching such a channel and it will be self-hosted in the 90's meaning of the term. They only way the channel will grow an audience is if it is passed by word of mouth.

The amount of effort that goes in to playing advertising metric games of YouTube is ridiculous to me. Anyone that says well people have to get paid I say maybe.

Real creators create and don't need the like, subscribe, patreon, mantra. Most of the gunsmithing sights on YouTube are moving towards this idea.

I don't believe in the discovery myth so many talk about as essential. It is only essential if you need inorganic growth.

I would say it's an emerging trend and that the more they tighten their grip the more creators will slip through their fingers.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#255

Post by concordDance » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:57 AM UTC

mozball wrote: post #165

detourdog wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to remember they are only commercial efforts. If you can value something other than money it doesn't matter what the corporate web is doing compared to human ingenuity and the internet. Let them waste their time and money write their specs.

As an example, Can you recommend a good tech/hacker video channel that is available somewhere else other than Youtube?

Arent everyday astronaught, practical engineering and tom Scott available on their own websites?

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#256

Post by awesomeMilou » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:57 AM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #217

hef19898 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If successful, that would make the anti-trust suites against MS seem like childs play.

There won't be an anti-trust suit. The implicit deal will be we will prevent "misinformation" (favor news sources you support and censor anything you request with our algorithm) and you will allow us to monopolize the internet.

That's far fetched. Mozilla still breathes and they have enough cash to start an anti-trust lawsuit in Europe.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#257

Post by baq » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:57 AM UTC

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #244

chippiewill wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. I switched to Chrome pretty much the day it first came out and it was revolutionary. Switched back to Firefox a few years ago due to Chrome becoming too dominant and Google throwing their weight around in standards committees too much. When I desperately need Chromium for something I use Edge (which I actually rather like).

The problem with Mozilla Corporation/Foundation is that they blew all their time/money/resources/lead on things that didn't matter, not helping pave the way forward, and then fired a lot of their staff to boot! Mozilla was once a bright shinning beacon of hope for the open web, but they wasted their good will on too many of us, and it pains me to think what could have been.

Good will is nice but those people also need to eat and mozzilla really needed to find a revenue stream other than google paying them off so they don’t have to spend 100x the amount on antitrust litigations.

This is a perfect case in which I’d like to see my taxes funding their work.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#258

Post by lsp_trw » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:58 AM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #217

hef19898 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If successful, that would make the anti-trust suites against MS seem like childs play.

There won't be an anti-trust suit. The implicit deal will be we will prevent "misinformation" (favor news sources you support and censor anything you request with our algorithm) and you will allow us to monopolize the internet.

[dead]

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#259

Post by detourdog » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:58 AM UTC

epolanski wrote: post #246

Adverblessly wrote: post #32

It isn't just "make ad-blocking (near) impossible" as the current title of the submission suggests. It is: Make browsing the internet possible only on Chrome, Safari or Edge (with no modifications or extensions). No competition allowed in browsers. Make browsing the internet possible only on macOS, Windows, Android or iOS (no custom Android distributions, definitely no LineageOS or GrapheneOS or whatever). No competi…

How would they achieve that?

They won't. Their corporate overlords are looking at their empire of dirt and trying to figure out a new newness.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#260

Post by AlexandrB » Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 11:58 AM UTC

EvanAnderson wrote: post #104

irusensei wrote: post #66

> Websites funded by ads require proof that their users are human and not bots...Social websites need to differentiate between real user engagement and fake engagement...Users playing online games want assurance that other players are adhering to the game's rules. The whole ad based web industry is really desperate to authenticate humans from bots isn’t?

It’s not authenticating humans, though— just sanctioned software and hardware. There’s no reason you couldn’t hook a bot up, via video feed and inputs, to an “attestable” device and have it use the Internet that way. This just raises the bar on bot sophistication. In another thread somebody talked about pointing a camera at a phone and using a robot “finger” to interact with it. If anything WEI would make that easier…

This is also how sophisticated game cheating systems work[1]. No amount of rootkit-like anti-cheat will help when you're cheating with a capture card and emulated mouse and keyboard.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/07/cheat-maker-brags-of-...