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Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

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Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#231

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

px43 wrote: post #121
KnobbleMcKnees wrote: post #11

A good and measured article marred only by a silly, clickbait title. Unless there is a plan to allow attesters that are independent bodies then this is absolutely a threat to the open internet, or what's left of it. The biggest dead canary for me is the lack of calling this out explicitly by Google or Apple. We're left to assume that Google is hand-wavingly saying "don't worry we can take care of that" when the priva…

[flagged]

My bank has had MFA literally since the moment they first offered a web service. Hardware authenticators and everything.

This was over a decade before any other web service I know of even had optional MFA support.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#233

Post by nequo »

cmilton wrote: post #183
vultour wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victim blaming is absolutely the correct approach here. Of course you shouldn't blame your grandma for using Chrome, but people on HN are a completely different audience. HN readers should be well aware of the damage Google is causing to the open internet, using Chrome is tantamount to supporting this effort.

What should HN readers do that are forced to work within these ecosystems? Ex. Work, school. It’s not always so easy to walk away from an entire platform. People’s entire livelihoods could be based around Google. I don’t see any issue with Google owning some of this responsibility.

Google is a monopolist that acts like a monopolist. Its main revenue source is advertising. So it will use its monopoly power to secure advertising.

You cannot expect Google to act against its own self-interest only because you ask nicely. You have to stop giving them the market power to do it.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#234

Post by mozball »

edg5000 wrote: post #97
nfriedly wrote: post #57

I hate to say it, but if you used Chrome to read this, then you're part of the problem. Awful stuff like this wouldn't stand a chance if Google didn't have such a near-monopoly position. For the sake of the open internet, please switch to a different browser. IMO, Firefox is best*, but even something chromium based is probably fine. Just not Google Chrome. * On desktop - Firefox is a bit weaker on Android, with an ex…

I agree, I use Firefox everywhere. But we must not forget the following: In 2011 Mozilla income was 85% derrived from Google, through the primary search engine deal. Around a billion was paid over three years as part of this deal at some point. Appearantly there was bidding by Microsoft for making Bing the default, which pushed up the pricing. So every time Mozilla speaks out against Google, it is a bit awkward, sinc…

Mozilla should really double down on Mozilla VPN. Judging by all the NordVPN ads on every major youtuber's video, the profit margins must be astronomical (or their business model must be suspicious). It should provide a good income stream for Mozilla. The entire space is shady and filled with dubious actors. It is just begging to be disrupted by a trustworthy organization.

I can't think of a single candidate other than Mozilla that has the technical expertise, experience, trust, reputation, resources (not to mention non-profit structure) built over 20 years defending the open web. I don't understand why Mozilla is dragging their feet on this. They should have owned the entire VPN market by now. VPNs aren't cryogenic rockets.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#235

Post by [deleted] »

cmilton wrote: post #183
vultour wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Victim blaming is absolutely the correct approach here. Of course you shouldn't blame your grandma for using Chrome, but people on HN are a completely different audience. HN readers should be well aware of the damage Google is causing to the open internet, using Chrome is tantamount to supporting this effort.

What should HN readers do that are forced to work within these ecosystems? Ex. Work, school. It’s not always so easy to walk away from an entire platform. People’s entire livelihoods could be based around Google. I don’t see any issue with Google owning some of this responsibility.

[deleted]

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#236

Post by pjc50 »

fallingknife wrote: post #217
hef19898 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If successful, that would make the anti-trust suites against MS seem like childs play.

There won't be an anti-trust suit. The implicit deal will be we will prevent "misinformation" (favor news sources you support and censor anything you request with our algorithm) and you will allow us to monopolize the internet.

Other countries can do anti-trust as well.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#237

Post by inopinatus »

zb3 wrote: post #50

The latest, tone-deaf response from a Google engineer: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...

Imagine outing yourself this publicly as the next engineer to get your employer slapped with a couple more billion-dollar European Commission fines.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#238

Post by tjoff »

eptcyka wrote: post #145
edg5000 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I use Firefox everywhere. But we must not forget the following: In 2011 Mozilla income was 85% derrived from Google, through the primary search engine deal. Around a billion was paid over three years as part of this deal at some point. Appearantly there was bidding by Microsoft for making Bing the default, which pushed up the pricing. So every time Mozilla speaks out against Google, it is a bit awkward, sinc…

Yet the development of the browser is seeing a smaller fraction of that income than most people believe.

Then let's make the situation even worse until it resolves itself.

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#239

Post by rpastuszak »

zb3 wrote: post #50

The latest, tone-deaf response from a Google engineer: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...

> Let’s work together on finding the right path

This is precisely what the reported issues are trying to achieve, regardless of their tone. The current path is completely wrong and reckless. The first step of working together would be to abandon this approach entirely.

This is akin to suggesting that we'd solve global warming by triggering a nuclear winter. This is not something you can solve by iterating and finding a middle path. The entire premise of this proposal is dangerous and should be binned.

Just think about all the potential ways in which this approach can (and obviously would) be abused.

(Posting this here as I just noticed they disallowed commenting)

Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible

#240

Post by westernpopular »

jwr wrote: post #56

Unfortunately, we will all happily accept this. Because using Chrome is "convenient". People will accept anything for convenience — WhatsApp is a good example, where millions of people worldwide happily share and sync their entire phone book with Facebook/Meta. If you care, stop using Chrome. If you criticize this evil move, but continue using Chrome, you are part of the problem.

WhatsApp and Chrome is apples and oranges - not using WhatsApp comes at a social cost (especially in countries like Germany and India where almost everyone uses it) because you can no longer communicate with other WhatsApp users or participate in group chats.

Not using Chrome comes with zero cost - you can use the same websites everyone else is using, just use Firefox.

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