Blaming the engineers themselves?
They are the ones doing the work. They certainly have a choice not to.
But you do realise that other engineers may do it, right? Ultimately the managers or executives are the ones behind it.
Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
161–170 of 486 posts
Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Firefox is owned by Mozilla which is not owned by Google in any way. Who owns Mozilla? Put another way, if Google stops funding Mozilla, will it still exist? The only reason Firefox exists is because Google wants something they can point to in court and say "look! we're not a monopoly!"
The shareholders of Mozilla own Mozilla. And that's not Google. If Google stopped the search deal then Bing would take over in a second.
A little nitpick: Mozilla has no shareholders. Mozilla Foundation is a non-profit, while Mozilla Corporation is 100% owned by the Foundation. Your point still stands though.
Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
#163A good and measured article marred only by a silly, clickbait title. Unless there is a plan to allow attesters that are independent bodies then this is absolutely a threat to the open internet, or what's left of it. The biggest dead canary for me is the lack of calling this out explicitly by Google or Apple. We're left to assume that Google is hand-wavingly saying "don't worry we can take care of that" when the priva…
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> A simple example would be just rejecting ad-blocking extensions from their Chrome store. They've never done anything close to that (including all the manifest v3 hullabaloo where they explicitly worked with ad-blocking teams to help them migrate) so who in their right mind would think that they would try to sneak it in via some fancy new web standard that wouldn't even be able to effectively block ad-blocking if it wanted to.
Like, perhaps like if they didn't allow any extensions on their mobile browsers?
(Note: You can't use extensions on Chrome on mobile devices)
Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
#164I know ads is a huge business. I never click them. Who clicks on ads? Really? What segment of Internet users does?
Which implies the click fraud problem. I thought that Google was strongly disinterested in robust counter measures because so much as engagement is straight fraud. If you shine a light on it the market shrinks a lot.
Sure they have known for a long time. What is changing is advertisers awareness of the fake clicks. Creates an opportunity for ad platforms that can prove the humanity of their viewers.
Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
iirc remote attestation is reliant on hardware attestation, which means these websites will only run on authorized DRM-enforcing hardware and architectures. Only Intel, AMD, Qualcomm and the like. No open-source firmwares, architectures or hardware.
It's important to remember they are only commercial efforts. If you can value something other than money it doesn't matter what the corporate web is doing compared to human ingenuity and the internet. Let them waste their time and money write their specs.
As an example, Can you recommend a good tech/hacker video channel that is available somewhere else other than Youtube?
Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
#166Technically we do not need "proof" that our users are human, not even when using AdSense to monetize our websites. The only reason Google think we do is because they implemented AdSense incorrectly. E.g. Using an impractical and underpriced PPC model. If they used a fixed pricing model this would not be a problem, and fake clicks would not even be an issue.
How does fixed pricing mean you don't need to care about bots?
The site claims they get 1M visitors per day; should an advertiser believe them?
Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
#167I remember AMP. If they push this through I'll be taking our business off Google. That would mean a lot of workflow changes but there is absolutely no way this gets a pass. Quitting Twitter was annoying and quitting Google will be a lot harder but I do believe that if you don't stand up against stuff like this that you're effectively part of the problem.
Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
#168I hate to say it, but if you used Chrome to read this, then you're part of the problem. Awful stuff like this wouldn't stand a chance if Google didn't have such a near-monopoly position. For the sake of the open internet, please switch to a different browser. IMO, Firefox is best*, but even something chromium based is probably fine. Just not Google Chrome. * On desktop - Firefox is a bit weaker on Android, with an ex…
I'm honestly (as in putting in multiple hours) trying to switch to Firefox every 4 to 5 months. I tried at least 4 times. I do the dance of migrating bookmarks, passwords, layout preferences, add-ons, workflows, setting up sync, installing on all Android and desktop devices ... and then i run into issues, try to fix some of them, research, then give up and go back to chrome and don't think about it anymore until anot…
What are these issues?
Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much is the cost of living? Lifestyle creep? Do they have anyone at home sick and they're the only ones working while also living in a high cost of living area? It's not that easy.
> Lifestyle creep? "Im used to spending too much money so in order to not getting a minimal pay cut im gonna work on unethical proyects." Isthe kind of insane thinking only people at HN seem to say without flinching. Like at that point do not work at google, write ransomware for a company in Russia, they will pay even more money. Make bio weapons for a dictator in a civil war afflicted country of the third world. If…
>"Im used to spending too much money so in order to not getting a minimal pay cut im gonna work on unethical proyects."
That also accounts for expenses.
Do any of them send money home? Help parents or grandparents? Do any of them had to bring their parents or grandparents to live with them due to health issues? Lifestyle creep takes into account taking on more debt. That debt is not just in luxury like how most people think.
Re: Google engineers want to make ad-blocking (near) impossible
#170This is a dumb article that's trying and failing to tie Attestation to ad blocking. > However, how this plays out with browsers that allow extensions or are modified remains a grey area. As the proposal vaguely mentions, "Web Environment Integrity attests the legitimacy of the underlying hardware and software stack, it does not restrict the indicated application’s functionality." That's not vague at all.
And if ad-blockers are considered illegitimate software? This would be entirely in line with financial incentives of the proposed attesters and even logically defensible (oh well, we haven’t vetted uBlock, so you can’t browse with that installed).
You can't block a hosts file, or a firewall between you and your ISP.