Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's saying to pour yourself a stiff drink ;-)
Is the hard truth different before bourbon, then? (tongue firmly in cheek)
Bourbon just helps you swallow the hard truth. Maybe calms you down a bit too.
A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
301–310 of 324 posts
Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having a realistic picture of the future is important for long-term life planning. It is not the reporting of the facts that’s fuckin’ up the kids, it’s the facts themselves. Burying your head in the sand is not a valid technique when addressing anxieties, it only makes the inevitable emotional breakdown worse when things come to a head.
It is not a "fact" that climate change will cause our extinction. Point me to one serious report that says that. Your nonstop doomerism has half the kids believing that absolute lie.
Nobody here said anything about extinction. You should not use such extreme hyperbole while accusing others of extreme hyperbole.
Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Shouldn't we expect ... similar climate as ... West Coast of Canada at same latitude The Pacific ocean has a similar current to the Gulf stream (AMOC) called the Kuroshio current. If the Gulf stream stops, you should expect the climate in London to be worse than the climate in the center of northern Canada.
> the Kuroshio current Everything I've read about the Kuroshio current only talks about its effect on Japan. Does it carry all the way to the North American west coast? Looking at this map[0], you can clearly see the effect of the AMOC on how warm the waters north of Europe are compared to similar latitudes elsewhere, but there doesn't seem to be the same relationship between the waters east of the West Coast vs. wes…
Yeah, there is a cold water California current that flows south along the coast, but it is the green band of water in that image (>16.7 c, >62 f) in the higher latitudes (>45" N) that is the warm water circulating. Both the Pacific and Atlantic have similar circulation, with Kuroshio current and the Gulf stream being the respective Western Boundary currents.
Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of my kids observed that knowing all the stuff he learns in school doesn't seem to make him any happier, but does wonders for seeing how fucked up everything is. It would be nice if I found a way to show him that knowing lots of stuff can help in positive ways as well but for now he has me cornered.
Sounds like a smart kid. I'm not sure if the world is fucked up or we just are misinterpreting it. If I can sympathize with fucked up characters in books and movies, maybe it just means I don't know enough about those people/things that I consider evil or fucked up. There's a lot of variables at play, many hidden, creating a fundamentally stochastic reality. A friend told me a saying once, and I don't think he realiz…
Food for thought, thank you very much. We seem to have a lot in common when it comes to learning for learning's sake.
Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Historically the bringers of bad news were executed. These days we're a bit better but not all that much . Am I reading this right—currently scientists that bring bad news aren’t treated all that much better than…being executed?
You are not reading that right. We are not executing them in the literal sense but people's lives are being ruined. One of the bits that made it into the guidelines is that if there are multiple explanations for a comment that you're supposed to go with the stronger one. You seem to have picked the wrong interpretation on purpose. Please don't do that.
> You are not reading that right. We are not executing them in the literal sense but people's lives are being ruined.
I didn’t suggest that my reading was that they are being executed in the literal sense. I was saying that my reading was that what’s happening to scientists is only a little bit better than literal execution—and because I found that reading so surprising, I asked if that was correct.
> One of the bits that made it into the guidelines is that if there are multiple explanations for a comment that you're supposed to go with the stronger one. You seem to have picked the wrong interpretation on purpose. Please don't do that.
Seems to me there’s a bit of hypocrisy going on here. I literally asked if my reading of it was correct. For you to say that I purposely picked a wrong interpretation (though I’m not sure your explanation suggests that my actual interpretation was wrong) would seem to mean that you think my question was insincere—that I wasn’t actually wanting to know if my interpretation of it was correct. That’s fine, but you had the choice of believing I was being sincere or that I was being insincere. Did you pick the “stronger”?
And to be clear, I’m generally on your side with regard to your overall point. The trend over the last decade or more of people attacking scientists who dare find results that conflict with their politics makes me furious.
Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
As always I disagree... This is the attitude that "people in charge will do something for you, and if they don't I guess we'll cope" that is undemocratic and breeds passivity. if you are concerned about something it does not mean you must be non stop stressed or forever abandon your life for single cause. You can be concerned and act in constructive ways (lead by example, talk about it, raise the issue, vote, etc), m…
No, it is not that attitude at all. It is simply recognizing that there are some things that you will not be able to influence directly. The only time when you have a fractional input on this is at the voting booth and even there the chance is that climate change will not be expressly put on the ballot but you get a mixture of components that you will be able to locally influence. But that sort of mechanism isn't wel…
You are concerned, and you are a person in developed part of the world, so looks like it's not that bad eh? As long as you don't recuse yourself from the problem, of course
> If this particular thing concerns you and you are not non-stop stressed that only means that you haven't understood it yet.
That's a mentally unhealthy attitude. Whether something is of importance to you or not should not determine whether you are stressed over it, you can approach it on a balanced constructive way.
Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
That's crossing into personal attack. Please don't do that here.
I disagree it was a personal attack. I just said anonymous posters who claim they are don't have credibility, in contrast with people who put their names and credentials up there. I haven't called the poster names or insulted them.
It's very easy to shape public opinion, dang; we shouldn't let anonymous posters set the tone of discussion or flung FUD around on the most important issue of our lives.
When I go to the doctor, I know I can trust them because I see a diploma on the wall, they have a name, I can ask other doctors about them. Would you, dang, let someone you just met on the street operate on you? Or diagnose you? Just because they said they were a doctor?
Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a lay-bystander to the climate debate, I get a little spooked when I see comments like this. Like 99.9% of people, the science of complex climate systems is beyond me as are the de facto black box models that project climate change. Instead I use “appears in a credible journal” as a basis for trusting the apparent direction of travel and I’m disconcerted when I see that proxy challenged. I also, I am somewhat sorr…
FWIW and IME: not by trying to reduce the uncertainty through study. I spent a few years studying climate models. I have lots of background in mathematical modeling and numerics, but not climate per se, so this was a big undertaking but possible. I have to admit that -- although I can now read and understand papers better -- it hasn't been particularly illuminating. The global climate is changing. The long-term impac…
> things are probably going to start getting bad within 1-2 hundred years
That's a very strange take when we're seeing serious consequences of climate change now.
Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like you would any other thing that is outside your circle of influence: kick it out of your circle of concern because you aren't realistically speaking geared up to move yourself into a position where you do have influence. If you don't you end up with the global equivalent of a burn-out and it might start to affect your ability to make decisions about things that you do have influence over because it is paralyzing…
As always I disagree... This is the attitude that "people in charge will do something for you, and if they don't I guess we'll cope" that is undemocratic and breeds passivity. if you are concerned about something it does not mean you must be non stop stressed or forever abandon your life for single cause. You can be concerned and act in constructive ways (lead by example, talk about it, raise the issue, vote, etc), m…
It's good to talk about things but it's not good to parrot things you can't understand.
Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kind of an irrelevant point to make. We're setting new emissions records, so nothing so far has been productive.
It's exceptionally relevant. Excuse my French, but this constant doomerism is really fucking up the kids. >"More than half of the 16- to 25-year-olds in the Lancet survey said they believe humanity is doomed. And close to 40 percent said that fears about the future have made them reluctant to have children of their own." [1] We gave an entire generation anxiety and depression, and it's going to wreak havoc on the fer…
During the cold war you would get similar stats amongst youth over fears of nuclear holocaust. (the risk hasn't gone away).
As a kid in Canada in the 80s I was taught to hide under a desk in case of nukes, and also I was taught about the greenhouse effect and it's relationship to our actions.