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Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

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Re: Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FUD. Just because you can't see the acid doesn't mean it's more likely to be "contaminated" or "something else". Coke on the other hand is essentially always mixed with something, and sometimes the dealer might squeeze in a bit of whatever to hook you on his product.

LSD is one of the most faked drugs by far. There are communities whose sole purpose is to find the real amongst the fake. It’s so bad that you’re more likely to get fake LSD than real… Cocaine is always somewhat contaminated but it’s comparatively very easy to get what people consider a quality product.

Is most LSD sold on dark web markets fake?

Re: Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

#52

They're not as easy to confidently and safely get as weed or coke. The first time you do acid you get a little tab that could be anything. This is probably also the reason (I guess) shrooms are more popular than acid - you can grow them and you can see that they are literal mushrooms, rather than some mysterious chemical substance made by your friend's boyfriend's cousin's roommate.

Although picking the mushrooms yourself, there's plenty of toxic mushrooms which could be mistaken for whichever species is common in your area.

And depressingly, while there are communities where you could go to get mushrooms checked by experts, they all dispose psilocybe as "toxic".

Identifying mushrooms is pretty tricky, I've just decided I can't make heads or tail of it and have given up trying, both for food and other purposes.

Re: Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After 1st psychedelic experience “damn, everyone should try this”. After further experience, no longer a huge proponent. A new user has to make a mental commitment that they will be changed and they themselves take responsibility for that and own the positives and negatives and can’t externalize that blame, otherwise they’re going to have a bad reality going forwards. My first experience was late 30s, I don’t know wh…

> A bad trip does equip you with a lot of confidence and resilience in yourself and your mental strength to almost get through anything Just out of curiosity, do you mean the person's self-confidence may dramatically improve with use? The only reason is because I had a recent co-worker who was laid off after taking psychedelics for a decent period of time. He effectively stopped contributing to the team and started m…

That seems like dude was consistently disconnected from reality due to being constantly high on drugs.

I think GP was referring to the long-term mental resilience and mindset shifts that can be byproducts of trips, not the effects of being under the influence.

Re: Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

#54

They're not as easy to confidently and safely get as weed or coke. The first time you do acid you get a little tab that could be anything. This is probably also the reason (I guess) shrooms are more popular than acid - you can grow them and you can see that they are literal mushrooms, rather than some mysterious chemical substance made by your friend's boyfriend's cousin's roommate.

Although picking the mushrooms yourself, there's plenty of toxic mushrooms which could be mistaken for whichever species is common in your area. And depressingly, while there are communities where you could go to get mushrooms checked by experts, they all dispose psilocybe as "toxic". Identifying mushrooms is pretty tricky, I've just decided I can't make heads or tail of it and have given up trying, both for food and…

You can at least buy the spores though, from somewhere more reputable than most sources of LSD.

Re: Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

#55

I have been partaking in them for the majority of my adult life. Looking at this data I’m surprised the number is not higher - 8%. My own impression is that it’s taking so long because even people familiar with them, like me, don’t actually reach for them all that often. They’re not habit forming. And talking about psychedelic experiences is a bit like talking about your dreams - it’s boring and personal.

The overall usage in the population is low because psychedelics are unpredictable. They can have long term effects on the human psyche and there is a correctly ingrained notion in society that they are dangerous to a stable mindset.

No, the overall usage is low because they are tabooed socially. Alcohol and nicotine are more dangerous and yet if you replace the taboo with widespread societal normalization or even nudge far enough that not doing alcohol is taboo then you see widespread rampant usage - and in some countries medical systems become strained.

I call bullshit on anyone saying societies are rational enough to identify which substances are dangerous to a stable mindset or not and that is why some substances are not used much. We aren't nearly that thoughtful with what we ingest. It is always "what will so and so think of me if I do or do not do this" as an overriding directive. Mind you, what others think of you and how that affects your social status has very strong causal mental health effects, so it is worth taking seriously. But obviously then this means the bad health effects are sometimes divorced from what the substance actually does to you independently of how worried you are others will see you.

In Vancouver Canada psychedelics have been decriminalized. You can buy shrooms for instance in stores that sell them publicaly and openly and legally with neon-capitalism ads telling you what strain will give you what kind of trip (are you looking for a hint of more socialization or more introspective?).

Accordingly bumping into random people at parties or public parks where people are high and happy to share they are high is orders of magnitude more common now. Said people are no longer as afraid that their behaviour will associate them with someone who is unlawful or a high risk taker or a leftist hippy or insert-negative-association-here. Less stigma = more usage.

Re: Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hesitate to downplay the long-term effects of heavy caffeine use.

What are they?

"nervousness; insomnia; dehydration; stomach irritation; fatigue." It's not just headaches. Fatigue in particular can be severe. If I don't drink coffee, I can barely stay awake at all.

Re: Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

#57
When we typically speak of "drug (ab)use", we have in mind drug use that frustrates the exercise of reason or some other faculties and their use in accordance with reason in one way or another. Alcohol, for instance, taken in small amounts is fine because in small amounts, it have a relaxing effect that causes no harm and does not frustrate the exercise of reason. Indeed, if you're experiencing distress and anxiety, a small amount of alcohol can help restore the use of reason by calming the anxiety that may be in fact impeding the exercise of reason. But in large amounts, our use of reason, among other faculties, is very much frustrated, putting to one side the other harms this causes. And because reason is that by which we know the truth and discern good from evil and reason morally and make decisions, it is evil to frustrate that faculty. And in doing so, open yourself up to evil and making bad decisions. So taking such a drug, and in immoderate amounts, is itself an immoral decision. We have a moral obligation to be rational, and intentionally harming or acting against our own rationality is evil.

The same can be said of any drug. The small amounts of cocaine in Vin Mariani were not the amounts taken by drug fiends snorting it into their noses and rubbing it on their gums. I'm sure Leo XIII and Pius X were experiencing a bit more energy in a manner analogous to what coffee drinkers experience.

Some drugs, however, may simply be bad in any effective dose. Some speak of microdosing psychedelics. I have no knowledge of the effects of doing so, but it sounds a bit SV gimmicky and some studies seem to suggest that is the case. In any event, the doses typically taken, those that cause hallucinations and a warped sense of reality, do frustrate the exercise and use of reason, with the added risk of traumatic experiences that can cause lifelong problems. This is gravely immoral for just the reasons I've given, so the intuition that psychedelics are something to be avoided is correct. Intentionally causing delusional thinking is gravely immoral.

That people are feeding a morbid curiosity in psychedelics seems to track closely the spiritually barren and nihilistic age we live in. New Age and drug culture is a piss-poor substitute for the splendor of truth. They're not rooted in reason, but cheap emotion, and what we call the "spiritual" is ultimately a rational matter (though, of course, you may experience emotional states as a consequence). It is better to address the actual problem instead of escaping into a degrading, mediocre ersatz.

Re: Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

#58
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree based on my experiences with psychadelic enthusiasts.

So you've formed a critical opinion of psychedelics without having tried them, based only on knowing enthusiasts? This would be like hating crossfit just because you know an annoying crossfitter, or vegan food just because you know an obnoxious vegan.

If the annoying crossfitter ignored that about a tenth of his gym mates attacked people on the street, yes, I would hate crossfit.

Re: Why did it take psychedelics so long to become popular?

#59

I have been partaking in them for the majority of my adult life. Looking at this data I’m surprised the number is not higher - 8%. My own impression is that it’s taking so long because even people familiar with them, like me, don’t actually reach for them all that often. They’re not habit forming. And talking about psychedelic experiences is a bit like talking about your dreams - it’s boring and personal.

The overall usage in the population is low because psychedelics are unpredictable. They can have long term effects on the human psyche and there is a correctly ingrained notion in society that they are dangerous to a stable mindset.

Can I get a source on that last claim?

The only real long term dangers of psychedelics would be impaired driving while under the influence (obviously) and increased likelyhood of psychosis if you were already predisposed to schizophrenia or bipolar. "Dangerous to a stable mindset" what does that even mean? Is that supposed to sound scientific?

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