Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#151

Post by ahtihn » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #85

ryneandal wrote: post #5

I've been working remotely for nearly seven years now. I've been able to enjoy all of the typical "firsts" for my youngest two, saved immense amounts of time with no commute, and have been able to pitch in more regarding domestic tasks. I understand and empathize with those that value face-to-face conversations in the office, but for those that don't, remote work is an incredible boon.

There's arguments from both sides of the coin but, though I'm biased having worked remote for almost 5 years now, I think the remote-side usually wins the argument by simply being more reasonable. I see far fewer remote workers claiming that "everyone should work remote" and more in-office workers making sweeping claims that remote reduces creativity, reduces, productivity, or makes people lazy. The anti-remote folks…

> Nobody's telling you not to drive to an office every day.

This argument doesn't work because it's not about being in aspecific physical location, it's about being in the same physical location as all the other workers.

When half the people you need to interact with are remote, there's no point going to the office.

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#152

Post by cj » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:39 PM UTC

Side note to the remote founders/employers out there:

Have you been plagued by applicant fraud? We've found for all of our remote engineering roles, we get 100's of amazing applicants who are all fake (clearly not actually in the US) once you get them on a screening call. They're often reading from a script, broken english, and say strange things like they're born and raised in Texas, yet can't speak fluent English or have a heavy accent.

My best guess is it's dev shops overseas who are using an English-speaking "front" person who then delegates the work to other people with the "front" person being the one who joins company meetings, etc.

Really frustrating because it's making us have to do silly things like require photo ID verification over video on the first screening call (which I would rather not inconvenience applicants with, but there are just SO many candidates lying about residing in the US).

With our most recent role, about 60-70% of applicants were fake ("fake" = candidates who lie about living/residing in the US)

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#153

Post by ryneandal » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

rjzzleep wrote: post #49

dimitrios1 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been working full time remote since Sept 2021 (correction, 2020, just before pandemic). It's not even that I don't value the face-to-face conversations and human interaction, I absolutely do. It just doesn't come close to the immense value I gain by WFH. A side benefit: I was able to move closer to my church community, so my "human interaction" need is being fulfilled richer than ever now. (One of the most fru…

I have a question for people here. I absolutely value the time with my daughter and I actually enjoy working for home, I had been for the last couple of years, but it's becoming increasingly unbearable to do that with a nagging and micromanaging partner by my side who's life is COMPLETELY unstructured. So I find myself longing for office time, not because I like office time, but rather because I feel like it might br…

My kids and wife know there is a rule during work hours:

When my office door is closed, I am not home (except for emergency, say broken limb or something). It takes some training, but they become accustomed to it.

You need to stress to your partner the importance of focus during work. This took an exceptional amount of effort for us because my wife is bipolar and when things are bad, her contributions become a trickle. Summer is always a trying time, because all the kids are home and she gets overwhelmed easily. Thankfully my employer is incredibly accommodating, so if I need to step away and resolve anything at home, they have faith that I'll see to my obligations.

There's certainly value in having a dedicated work area if possible. Your brain really likes having demarcation lines between work and home, so emulating that can help immensely.

It is important to note that WFH is NOT a silver bullet. It is not a solution for every employer/employee. It works incredibly well in many technological scenarios because of remote access and whatnot, but there are limiting factors. Both in bureaucratic requirements, "culture" fits, and domestic situations. What works for me in the Great Plains due to cheap(er) housing may not work in metro areas where some families are living in small apartments.

Don't feel obligated to make WFH succeed in your situation if you don't want to simply because its en vogue. I have dear friends that tried WFH and _hated_ it. Another option is co-working space or otherwise getting out of the house to focus on work. I find myself going to a local hiking trail area during spring/autumn to work outdoors, and it is refreshing.

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#154

Post by 1270018080 » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

HDThoreaun wrote: post #97

tayo42 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are being cheap. Software engineers are only providing 200k dollars worth of value? I find that hard to believe.

Salary has never been about the value you provide. It's about the cost to replace you. Companies will never pay you more than you cost to replace.

Which is why we need a union, despite what libertarians think they are above.

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#155

Post by TacticalCoder » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:41 PM UTC

ryneandal wrote: post #5

I've been working remotely for nearly seven years now. I've been able to enjoy all of the typical "firsts" for my youngest two, saved immense amounts of time with no commute, and have been able to pitch in more regarding domestic tasks. I understand and empathize with those that value face-to-face conversations in the office, but for those that don't, remote work is an incredible boon.

> saved immense amounts of time with no commute, and have been able to pitch in more regarding domestic tasks

Same with my kid. Another big win of remote for me is that I can go where I'm treated best. I can pick a country (anyone could pick my country and I had to welcome them with open hands, so it's only fair game that in exchange I'm allowed to go wherever I feel like going) which welcomes me and my family and where the taxes are reasonable and where the people are nice.

I'm at my fourth country in seven years and this time I think the family shall stay for quite a while.

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#156

Post by yodsanklai » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:41 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #94

gumby wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out to my surprise I like going into the office, but definitely not every day. Also I've only once had a commute longer than 20 minutes and it was such a burden (even though I carpooled) I gave that up after less than a year.

> Turns out to my surprise I like going into the office, but definitely not every day. You're not alone. The internet likes to talk about remote work as the only acceptable arrangement, but that's mostly because it's biased toward people who like socializing via internet comment sections. The number of people who actually like going to the office (either part or full time) is far higher than you'd expect from reading…

There are many people who like going to the office, but

- don't like to commute

- don't like to live in the city where the office is

- don't want to pay insane rents to live in a studio

Personally, I quite like the office and really miss socializing but it's a tradeoff and I chose full remote.

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#157

Post by dv_dt » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:41 PM UTC

vbo wrote: post #117

I don't mind working from home, but I find WFH-accommodating calls exhausting; it feels they take far longer than the equivalent in person discussion, in addition to losing the ad-hoc nature of office conversations. The context switch feels heavier on calls than it does in person. Also, the way daily calls tend to be scheduled (everyone at once, let's hash out everything for everyone so we can then get on with things…

It sounds to me like you're WFH in a culture that doesn't do async coordination well. I don't know how large an org you're in, but some targeted team process refresh goals/training for better async coord would seem like it could improve your working environment. (edit: this could be a suggestion put to your team leads/managers with the objective of improving culture & efficiency)

Some of that is explicitly writing up short coordinating docs/memos instead of real-time hashing it out, and comes with some of the attendant advantages of writing and thinking often discussed in HN posts.

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#158

Post by robswc » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:42 PM UTC

acuozzo wrote: post #150

robswc wrote: post #70

It's weird. I feel like you can get more done at an office at times... but then there's also a lot of downtime. Also the commute is always killer. I honestly believe people work better when they get dressed and have some routine. No idea how people can work in their PJs, I'd feel so lazy, lol. However. The commute is killer. Even if you get it down to just 15 min. (which is hard unless you live right next to work) th…

> Even if you get it down to just 15 min. (which is hard unless you live right next to work) that's 30 min. a day. Prob adds up to well over 100 hrs a year just commuting. I need my morning commute. It's a kind of forced meditation that I can't get at home with three young children. It would stress me out if I couldn't work a flexible schedule or if I had to deal with rush-hour, so I'm thankful that these stars align…

That's fair, honestly gives you an advantage that you enjoy it.

For me, anytime I'm commuting I feel is time I could be doing almost literally _anything_ else. My secret to getting away (its not forced though, lol) is a mini sauna. I don't really sit in there sometimes but if I say I'm going to it's everyone's clue to leave me alone haha.

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#159

Post by ravenstine » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:42 PM UTC

unshavedyak wrote: post #132

ravenstine wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's arguments from both sides of the coin but, though I'm biased having worked remote for almost 5 years now, I think the remote-side usually wins the argument by simply being more reasonable. I see far fewer remote workers claiming that "everyone should work remote" and more in-office workers making sweeping claims that remote reduces creativity, reduces, productivity, or makes people lazy. The anti-remote folks…

Completely agree. I've long believed that society is just "wrong" with the work/life balance these days. Socially i think we could drop to 6h days and life would improve dramatically (just looking at home time, that is) for most people. For me, just giving up commutes and being able to do some basic chores on breaks or lunch alone brings a ton of this balance back into check. I work 8h but i gained so much "me" time…

It all depends on need. The idea that everything needs to work the same way is unsound. Arguably, the company I work for doesn't need to bring everyone into the office every day; we seem to be doing quite well. Another firm that believes it sees better creativity when people are in the same physical room may be better off not having their workers be remote.

And like you say, not every company necessarily gets a benefit from having an 8 hour day. Depending on the nature of the job, the remaining hours of the day can be a diminished return, in which case one might as well give up on the game of charades and just allow their employees to go home.

Re: Remote work on HN: Who is hiring? – 69% jobs in 2023 are remote

#160

Post by ryanSrich » Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #94

gumby wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turns out to my surprise I like going into the office, but definitely not every day. Also I've only once had a commute longer than 20 minutes and it was such a burden (even though I carpooled) I gave that up after less than a year.

> Turns out to my surprise I like going into the office, but definitely not every day. You're not alone. The internet likes to talk about remote work as the only acceptable arrangement, but that's mostly because it's biased toward people who like socializing via internet comment sections. The number of people who actually like going to the office (either part or full time) is far higher than you'd expect from reading…

> The number of people who actually like going to the office (either part or full time) is far higher than you'd expect from reading Reddit and Hacker News.

I think most people like an office setting. Even remote work proponents like myself enjoy the office every now and then.

The problem is really two things.

1.) The commute is brutal. If you live in any decent sized city and have a family, it's likely that you are far enough away from the office that you have to drive 30+ minutes in pretty horrendous traffic. That's not only lost time that you could be spending with your family, or even doing work, but it's mentally exhausting. No one is refreshed in the office after a shitty commute.

2.) Often offices turn political. The dynamics of in person work can cause many issues that just don't happen when you work remote. Remote work, when done correctly, is mostly about contribution and output. In an office, low performers can outshine high performers simply by being present and seeming busy. Remote work mostly fixes this.