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Amazon to force 'voluntary resignation' on workers who don't relocate

businessinsider.com

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Re: Amazon to force 'voluntary resignation' on workers who don't relocate

#51

Post by adastra22 »

hirundo wrote: post #25
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #13

"In employment law, constructive dismissal, also called constructive discharge or constructive termination, occurs when an employee resigns as a result of the employer creating a hostile work environment. Since the resignation was not truly voluntary, it is, in effect, a termination. For example, when an employer places extraordinary and unreasonable work demands on an employee to obtain their resignation, this can c…

I'm a remote worker who would quit before returning to the office. But even so I can't interpret a requirement to be non-remote as "a hostile work environment", "extraordinary", or "unreasonable". But yes, it does look more like a termination than a voluntary resignation.

The actual threashold is “a meaningful change in your work requirements” and there is, I believe, plenty of case law to establish that this includes a significant change to your worksite location.

If you live 5 min from your office, maybe you can’t use this excuse. But if you are committing 45+ min each way, or have since moved out of state…

Re: Amazon to force 'voluntary resignation' on workers who don't relocate

#53

Post by [deleted] »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #27
andsoitis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How a forced "voluntary resignation" is different from a being fired? is it some corporate euphemism or is it a thing? It is different in that you have a choice. You can either adapt to the new policy (work conditions change) or you can leave. Totally up to you.

Seems more than a little debatable to me... could my employer require me to move to Alaska? if it's not in my employment contract, isn't it up to them to renegotiate or fire me?

[deleted]

Re: Amazon to force 'voluntary resignation' on workers who don't relocate

#54

Post by RollAHardSix »

tptacek wrote: post #22
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #13

"In employment law, constructive dismissal, also called constructive discharge or constructive termination, occurs when an employee resigns as a result of the employer creating a hostile work environment. Since the resignation was not truly voluntary, it is, in effect, a termination. For example, when an employer places extraordinary and unreasonable work demands on an employee to obtain their resignation, this can c…

That matters when employees have contracts promising termination only with cause. But these employees are likely all at-will; they can be fired for having the wrong hair cut.

No, I live in an at-will state, you can absolutely file for constructive dismissal. And SHOULD. If you can do your job remotely, have been doing your job remotely, and the company wants to end that? Then the company absolutely needs to be challenged and burdened with showing proof as to why returning to the office is necessary when it does create an unreasonable burden on the employee.

For anyone who says this isn't an unreasonable burden, what if you live in a different state? Or in a lower cost-of-living? Or have a home/family life built around a position working remotely that you have been functioning in perfectly fine for three, four, five plus years?

In Physical Security if your position requires body armor, the company is legally admitting it's a dangerous life-threatening position & denying a request for body armor is a legal attestation that the job should not be considered dangerous in the course of day to day work.

Much the same way, the company is now admitting that onsite work for the position is somehow more necessary then working remotely. Challenge these companies.

Re: Amazon to force 'voluntary resignation' on workers who don't relocate

#56

Post by 40yearoldman »

linuxftw wrote: post #32

If only there were some way the employees could band together and negotiate equitable terms of employment.

Yes. Let’s do this thing that will likely lower pay and ensure shitty engineers keep jobs they can’t do because of a horribly short sighted view that RTO is not equitable.

The issues with Unions is there appears to be no way for a company to hire non union workers. Once this happens you are basically the mob. And hold the company and other employees hostage to mob rule. Which is almost always not driven by logic.

There are enough remote jobs.

The idea that you want a specific job at a specific place to allow you to work remotely is insane. Nobody owes you shit. Either you like the terms and work there or you don’t and find another job.

Re: Amazon to force 'voluntary resignation' on workers who don't relocate

#58

Post by unpwn »

flappyeagle wrote: post #39

Before the flood of remote work die-hards start to flood this thread I want to implore you to spend that energy making better tools for remote collaborating. It’s been 3 years since we started social distancing and exactly nothing is different today vs then. We are still stuck in Notion, Zoom, and Slack. The unlucky ones are on MS Teams. Remote learning is terrible for most people, remote training is similar. Ad hoc…

As if RTO solves this at all. Lots of teams are distributed across the many hubs. Amazon is basically asking a large number of its employees to commute hours into the office, or move across the country, just to sit on chime/slack all day anyway.

Re: Amazon to force 'voluntary resignation' on workers who don't relocate

#59

Post by s1artibartfast »

Aurornis wrote: post #41
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #13

"In employment law, constructive dismissal, also called constructive discharge or constructive termination, occurs when an employee resigns as a result of the employer creating a hostile work environment. Since the resignation was not truly voluntary, it is, in effect, a termination. For example, when an employer places extraordinary and unreasonable work demands on an employee to obtain their resignation, this can c…

If they did this to a single employee without good reason, that employee might have a case. If they institute a company-wide policy and apply it by default to everyone, an individual could not argue that the company constructively dismissed them.

Case to sue for what? Constructive dismissal is legal

Re: Amazon to force 'voluntary resignation' on workers who don't relocate

#60

Post by s1artibartfast »

RollAHardSix wrote: post #54
tptacek wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That matters when employees have contracts promising termination only with cause. But these employees are likely all at-will; they can be fired for having the wrong hair cut.

No, I live in an at-will state, you can absolutely file for constructive dismissal. And SHOULD. If you can do your job remotely, have been doing your job remotely, and the company wants to end that? Then the company absolutely needs to be challenged and burdened with showing proof as to why returning to the office is necessary when it does create an unreasonable burden on the employee. For anyone who says this isn't…

If they won a case for constructive dismissal, what do you think they would win?
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