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Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

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Re: Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

#41
post #37

> inbox is a todo list. email is the protocol for putting stuff on it I see these categories of email 1. Email from people you know that you're likely to respond to, and which therefore lead to "conversations" 2. Reminders and "things to do" that you need to act upon; once you have acted upon it you usually update the status of the task by mailing back 3. Read-only email: email sent by corporations that you somehow n…

My approach to #3 in gmail is to have filters that auto-archive, and then use multiple inboxes to show them under my main inbox email.

Re: Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

#43
post #37

> inbox is a todo list. email is the protocol for putting stuff on it I see these categories of email 1. Email from people you know that you're likely to respond to, and which therefore lead to "conversations" 2. Reminders and "things to do" that you need to act upon; once you have acted upon it you usually update the status of the task by mailing back 3. Read-only email: email sent by corporations that you somehow n…

The bigger problem is that right now the whole computer using experience is organized around finding information. Think about it, how many people do you know who have have their browser homepage set to their email, Google, Google News, or some sort of news aggregator? Virtually everyone.

Why is this the case? Probably because we've only been able to get this firehouse of information for a relatively short period of time, so it's new and interesting.

I think the bigger opportunity is to step back and think about what our homepages will look like in 50 years. Somehow I doubt it will have anything to do with finding basic facts. Finding a better way to organize spam is thinking too small, I think you need to figure out a better way to integrate conversations and information into our broader life goals and daily lives.

Re: Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

#44

A nitpick: don’t try to identify a precise thing in the future. better model: columbus. “there’s something west. i’ll sail westward”. I bristle at seeing Colombus propped up as a model. The guy was wrong (he thought the earth was smaller than it actually was, so attempted to sail west as a shorter route to the East Indies), wrong (he discovered the Carribeans, not mainland America), wrong (he still thought he found t…

You're missing it dude. Columbus' conclusion was wrong when he started, but he had the right instincts to start sailing. This is what PG is saying - you don't know the future, so start sailing in an interesting direction and maybe you'll find something big.

I see your (and PG's) point, and I think he tied it to a terrible example. Basically, Colombus won big despite being wrong on so many aspects. In truth he was just very (incredibly) lucky. Thus I take the point as "do something stupid, you might just get lucky on something unrelated!".

But I understand that PG's real point is "trust your instincts, don't listen to the naysayers, but adapt to the circumstances".

Re: Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

#45
post #31

> dinosaur egg – make a search engine that all the hackers use. (top 10,000). don’t worry about doing something constraining in the short term, because if you don’t succeed in the short term there won’t be a long term Umm, search is just fine thank you. I could not survive without Google currently. The only thing I don't like about them is the lack of good customer support and the way they tend to develop unintuitive…

>> inbox is a todo list. >No, it isn't. It's a method of asynchronous communication and file transfer. If you're using it as a TODO list, you're doing it wrong. I don't think pg is asking for help with his email - for MANY people it IS a todo list. He's outlining opportunities for future startups - email IS an opportunity precisely because people are "doing it wrong" - you snarking like you disagree with him but it s…

> I don't understand your logic here. PG is talking about abstracting the problem away from the developer - you think the future of CS is that we will no longer make things abstract?!

I interpreted him as implying that writing code for parallel processing should happen in such a way that we don't have to think of it. But that is the whole problem. Developers are ignoring the complexity and opportunity that exists in understanding parallel computing. Development languages should evolve to embrace the opportunity that exists within understanding what is going on, not hide it. We didn't keep programming in BASIC since we were kids as our primary language, nor did we continue to use assembly. Things evolve, and, as developers, our thinking needs to evolve to support multiple CPUs and parallel computing; we don't need someone's help to wash over the fact that things have gotten more complex. We need to understand that complexity before attempting to abstract it.

Re: Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

#46

I keep hearing how difficult it is to build a standalone email client which integrates with gmail. Does anybody have a link to any good discussions for why it's so hard?

- There is no "gmail" API. It either looks like imap/smtp to your app, or pop3/smtp.

- POP3 is completely braindead, so moving on...

- Imap doesn't natively expose many gmail features. imap doesn't know about "Archiving" and "Labelling", so you have to map those to things like deleting and folders. There's an impedance mismatch.

- Exposing a search interface with all the functionality and responsiveness of the web app is painful. Sparrow does it nicely, in my opinion.

- You sometimes can't login and don't know why. Sparrow does this badly. Once, Sparrow just started putting red dots on my account and all it said was "authentication failure". I actually had to dig in to Sparrow's (thankfully provided) JSON logs to see that the error message was that "non web clients are locked out on your account". In turn, I had to just KNOW that this meant I had to do Google's unlock captcha. But they don't make that easy to find, I had to google it. Imagine my mom trying to troubleshoot that. I don't think so.

- Enabling 3rd party access to gmail via Imap is not a trivial exercise for the non-technically inclined. Even more so if you have two-factor authentication turned on. Imagine my mom trying to set that up. I don't think so.

- Imap and SMTP aren't the most trivial of protocols to implement correctly and completely.

- Stupid little things. Like, right now if I want to have my Google Voice number ring to Google Chat, I have to have my GMail window open in the browser (someone correct me if there's a better way). If I already have it up just so I can receive phone calls, why do I ALSO want to have a standalone email client open?

Re: Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

#47
> 2. replace email. inbox is a todo list. email is the protocol for putting stuff on it

I think what he actually meant is that if you logon to your mailbox, you see threads of stuff to do. Hence, your mailbox with names, subjects and content is really a "todo" for the day/week/etc.

I think, in the near future, we humans will be a creating protocols on our own. We will be creating our own protocols and "pushing" data, instead of "pulling" it from the web, like it is right now.

In my spare time, I am actually working on a paper covering that. I call it "hapi": Humans with Application Programming Interface. Will be glad to share more when its done.

Re: Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

#48
post #5

Curious point: > replace universities > heading down wrong path last couple decades. not fun for students or professors. Is that (fun part) generally true? I'm in my thirties, and I certainly had lots of fun at my previous job (MSFT, on developer tools), but none of it compared with either my undergraduate or Ph.D. student experiences. That also seems to be true for most of my colleagues and friends --- who have done…

IMO, the two problems with universities are:

1) Technology has made college much easier than it was 20 years ago. What used to take a few days of research in the library reading books is now a google search away. Reading has been replaced by Wikipedia. Yet, the curriculum has not scaled up in difficulty. Students spend very little time actually studying and internalizing information.

2) College needs to have a more high-school approach to teaching students, delivering an active, 40-hour week of education as opposed to 1-2 hours of lecture per day. The problem with liberal arts degrees isn't that they are liberal arts, it's that the actual activity requires reading a little bit and writing a little bit. There's no intensive, long-term internalization of the discipline.

To silicon valley, technology in education means Khan Academy. In the real world, it means a semester worth of papers written by Wikipedia in a few hours and midterms furtively answered by iPhone.

For the amount of money students are spending to attend, Universities should be able to provide a more engaging, transformative product. While this may seem abhorrent to self-starters and outliers in this community, the reality is that the demographic shift of universities has been towards exploding numbers of people with average intelligence who sincerely need full-time instruction.

Re: Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

#49
post #5

Curious point: > replace universities > heading down wrong path last couple decades. not fun for students or professors. Is that (fun part) generally true? I'm in my thirties, and I certainly had lots of fun at my previous job (MSFT, on developer tools), but none of it compared with either my undergraduate or Ph.D. student experiences. That also seems to be true for most of my colleagues and friends --- who have done…

IMO, the two problems with universities are: 1) Technology has made college much easier than it was 20 years ago. What used to take a few days of research in the library reading books is now a google search away. Reading has been replaced by Wikipedia. Yet, the curriculum has not scaled up in difficulty. Students spend very little time actually studying and internalizing information. 2) College needs to have a more h…

> Technology has made college much easier than it was 20 years ago.[...] Yet, [sic] the curriculum has not scaled up in difficulty.

If your statement is correct, you wouldn’t know it from reading the schlock that students pass off as papers even at “world class” colleges. Doing all the reading and writing clear, solid analyzes of difficult material is just as hard as it ever was. Harder, even, because there are a whole bunch of distractions that didn’t exist 30 years ago.

> College needs to have a more high-school approach to teaching students

Good god. High school is a stultifying swamp of concentrated terribleness. The whole point of college is that treating people like adults leads potentially to adult-quality thinking. Teaching college like high school completely undermines the purpose: raising a new generation of capable scholars and citizens.

> There's no intensive, long-term internalization of the discipline [in liberal arts subjects].

Just because none of the liberal arts majors you took the trouble to really engage with actually took their studies seriously doesn’t mean that serious liberal arts students don’t exist.

* * *

Overall, I think you’ve confused the difficulty of making good grades in a college program with the difficulty of doing the assigned work. If you measure your growth by how many A’s you can pull, education is always going to be intellectually unsatisfying for you.

Re: Paul Graham Keynote at PyCon

#50
post #37

> inbox is a todo list. email is the protocol for putting stuff on it I see these categories of email 1. Email from people you know that you're likely to respond to, and which therefore lead to "conversations" 2. Reminders and "things to do" that you need to act upon; once you have acted upon it you usually update the status of the task by mailing back 3. Read-only email: email sent by corporations that you somehow n…

Gmail offers email+foo@gmail.com, which is sent to email@gmail.com, but then you can filter on the To: field. I don't think that completely solves #3, but it's a helpful trick. Plus, then you can see how your email addresses get passed on, as long as whoever's got your email isn't clever enough to =~ s#\+.*?@#@# regex your address...
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