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The Fall of Stack Overflow

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261–270 of 808 posts

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#261
Sadly, I'm sure ChatGPT wouldn't be as good without SO but now SO is far outshone. The problem is that the community got mostly Eternal Septembered. So for things like OptaPlanner it's great because the guy uses it as his Q&A site (great idea) and he's obviously very knowledgeable and skilled.

But for everything else, it's mostly filled with folks who are not smart enough to comprehend the question and therefore often answer some other thing which they've pattern matched.

ChatGPT 4 can do that instantly instead.

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#262

This post, to me, is about the rise of ChatGPT — but I do think over-moderation is a huge problem. I had a hard moment on the gamedev stackexchange where I was stuck trying to learn how to do something in OpenGL. A moderator immediately closed my question as a duplicate because there was a similar question about OpenGL ES, which is a (related but) different API. I tried to plead my case, but was shut down. Shortly af…

The graphs in the post show the traffic decline starting around May 2022, months before ChatGPT was available. I'd wager the cause is a change in Google's algorithm. Most of the time I end up on Stack Overflow, it's because I've typed a question into a search engine.

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#263
post #134

I feel like the moderation culture of Stack Overflow became toxic and counterproductive years ago. It's like the worst parts of Wikipedia, but squared. Just endless arguments over what is or isn't a duplicate or is or isn't relevant, while every interesting question somehow ends up closed, good answers are downvoted, and spam drifts to the top. I'm sure everyone involved actually wants the site to be useful and pleas…

The exact opposite happened, contrary to this often repeated meme. Both SO and Wikipedia became what they were because of their strict moderation and RTFM-implied attitude. It's what drove professionals like me to the site. I'm just a regular user BTW, but it felt like SO people were my peers.

But SO (the company) wanted it to be more accessible, easier for newbies, "nicer", there was a huge uproar over them publicly blasting a moderator over a disagreement on a unilaterally imposed new code of conduct, and recently they even (again unilaterally) effectively reverted the ban on LLM-generated content. This has been going on for years, and moderators have less power than they ever had. Imho this whole thing started much earlier, I think it was 2017 when they tried the SO documentation project and let everyone keep their rep where I first thought they had jumped the shark.

The company has been on a bender for the last few years, and high-ish rep users like me just don't see the value in answering anymore. With recent blog posts it seems even more clear that they are on the direct path to enshittification, against their own actual users and moderators.

Recently it feels like all the actual professionals have left and what remains are "students" asking low effort questions in bad faith while an army of spambots tries to pounce on these.

While this means boosted engagement numbers short-term, it spells death of the site long-term. SO cannot survive on low quality spam, even if other sites (like Reddit) may be able to.

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 110% replaced it with ChatGPT. Perhaps SO would still have a chance back in its glory days but there's no comparison to having a direct, specific, instant answer vs having to fight against SEO or moderators for hours.

I haven't. Because (free, as in free beer) chatGPT is extremely slow, I have to make a rather extensive proompt to get the result I want to, and then I still have to debug most code. That's not very convenient, atleast for now. I got so used to search engines by now, that it only takes a few keywords to get the expected result. Be it a SO-answer or a documentation page. And as people have mentioned, chatGPT was learn…

ChatGPT-4 seems to do fine on this for me. https://chat.openai.com/share/c5cc8cb6-ebb5-45eb-9476-ef85a6...

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#265
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sprinkle in a 100K+ reputation user commenting "this is easily answered with `man Y`" — oblivious to the fact that Y's manpage is a 188 page monster, and manpages being awkward to search in. Case in point: https://stackoverflow.com/q/19622198

Here's a question maybe someone can answer for me, or maybe I'm just stupid and other people don't need it, but... What's up with the "man Y" aversion towards the usage of examples in the man pages? I don't expect some behemoth like ffmpeg to have a billion examples in the man files, but damn, every other reasonably sized CLI app would be so much easier to use, if you had just a dozen or two of examples at the end of…

tldr pages do exactly this.

https://tldr.sh

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah except Discord is toxic as fuck and should be banished...

Not to mention unsearchable, poor discovery, a chat platform is not a replacement for message boards. SO is well suited to the Q&A format and Discord just isn’t.

From my experience, most questions and answers are asked and solved in forum channels, which are quite easy to search for anything you need.

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

here’s a classic SO thread: OP: “how can I accomplish X doing Y?” top voted response: “I wouldnt do X by Y. Instead, I’d consider Z. It’ll do everything X by Y would do, plus these other things.” buried sub comment to top voted response: “that’s not what he asked, to do X by Y (exact solution provided)” then 10 comments blasting the guy who actually answered the question for not doing it the way the top voted answer…

The thing is that oftentimes people who want to do 'X by Y' are actually asking how to accomplish Q. They think 'X by Y' is the solution and get hit by a roadblock, not knowing that it will not help them and they are wasting time. This is called the XY problem and is extremely common on tech related forums and mailing lists. * https://xyproblem.info/

The trouble with SO that I've seen is that there are more false positive identification of the XY problem than false negatives.

IOW, any time you think you have spotted an XY problem, you're probably wrong.

And that's the problem with SO moderators and regulars. They classify everything as an XY problem because it allows them to answer the question they know the answer to rather than answer the question that was asked.

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always read here ChatGPT is amazing. Can you give a link on how to use it? Every time I tried to google it returns lots of different results and when I tried it it:s not even usable for basic things I want. Is the ChatGPT you:re talking about on their website? Do I have to pay for it?

https://chat.openai.com/ I currently pay for it but I'm not sure if it makes any difference.

Yes it does - gpt 4 is vastly superior to gpt 3.

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#269
Documentation has definitely gotten better, especially as people realize that this drives adoption and sales of the language/library/product.

For more complex problems that are better served by a call-and-response loop, Discord seems to be where conversations are happening.

Re: The Fall of Stack Overflow

#270
post #166

I think Discord has had a huge impact on Stack Overflow as there are many communities created for specific technologies, languages, frameworks, or topics, where most users can get answers from direct contributors or people who have the best industry knowledge on the topic in question. Not to mention how beneficial it is for brands and products to create such closely-knit communities for their users. There's no need t…

Yeah except Discord is toxic as fuck and should be banished...

Toxic? I sit mostly in tech/product servers, so I didn't spot that, but maybe you're right about places that are just "general".
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