Young people are flocking to astrology • Hacker News Board

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#591

Post by hasbot » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:02 PM UTC

copperx wrote: post #241

vkou wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with religion in the public sphere is that ~all of the religious arguments that are actually advanced in that sphere have nothing to do with ones made by religious scholars. Attacking a strawman is perfectly appropriate in this case, because the strawman is what actually drives policy.

I've always been curious about serious scholarship of religion. I've wondered whether it is possible to be both, say, a Christian and an atheist simultaneously (e.g., not believing that Christ existed physically, but at the same time believing that following the tenets in the religion is the right thing to do for the greater good, or perhaps interpreting the Bible completely metaphorically). I imagine that scholars c…

I'm an atheist but wouldn't mind seeing a religion based on Jesus' teachings flourish. I think most people are dumb and need something/someone to encourage them to act rationally and civilly. Not me, of course; I try my best and don't need further encouragement. Current Christianity isn't sufficient; one can easily see how un-Jesus-like many Christians are.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#592

Post by mekoka » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:03 PM UTC

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

The conditioned response that you're talking about is typical in a culture where we're taught to trust in science. I'm not saying that anyone should believe in astrology (I don't), but having spent the last few years looking into a number of topics similarly treated as esoterica, my understanding is that we're often unaware that science as a discipline is not dogmatic in what is possible. But human bias is probably its weakest element. How it has historically impeded our ability to understand certain phenomena (and continues to do so today), combined with our amazing ability to forget how wrong we can be, has convinced me that being open minded is not just politeness, but an imperative for anyone who wants to truly understand what's going on.

Most of what we think we know as individuals is actually just a set of beliefs (often never tested) to which we heuristically assign some probability of truth. When you really start to dig yourself, you often discover that scientists, like any humans, are not immune to religiosity. They believe some thing is possible, or that some other thing is not. Those beliefs tend to color how the research is done. It also seeps into the culture of a society that has learned to so overly rely on "what the science says", that what it remains silent about is mistaken as untruths. Research must start with a hunch, a belief. But beliefs are often consensual and if the consensus is strong, it can be very difficult for a competing theory to hint at a possible different direction, even with supporting evidence. Our history books are full of examples. We set out to study a misunderstood phenomenon, but because there is a strong consensual belief that it must have certain properties, we approach our explorations with those premises as established truths. When we get stuck, we have to wait for an entire generation to die off to reorient the research (as Max Planck remarked).

Having observed the above in my own diggings into certain topics that (luckily) have some scientific documented intersects, I'm now reeducating myself to have less of the conditioned response of taking my own beliefs (e.g. astrology is probably BS) too seriously, when evaluating people's intelligence if they believe the opposite.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#593

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:06 PM UTC

packagethieves wrote: post #451

mavhc wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organised Religion is good for people, because it keeps them from believing even crazier ideas, and still tells you to see a doctor when you're sick Most of the people who go to Organised Religion don't really believe in God, they're just in it for the tea and biscuits, ie it's a social club. If you really believed in God and Heaven you'd become a monk or nun, logically you'd spend your finite life maximising your ch…

A lot of anti vaxxers seem to advertise themselves as Christian. I think the actual problem (when it comes to anti vaxx, incels, and similar cults) is the internet unfortunately.

I wish religion would dissuade antivaxism. I'm active in a faith and every antivaxer I know is some stripe of Christian. They're a small minority, thank Glob.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#594

Post by tjbiddle » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:06 PM UTC

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #440

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

Dude, lighten up. She was playing a game with you, probably flirting. And you didn't play the game very well. Mysticism is fun, aesthetic, and filled with more questions than answers. Play the game some time, you might enjoy it. I also can't believe you actually found a way to weasel racism into the conversation. It's all so tiresome.

Eh, living in an area that has far too many astrology-nuts - it's less about flirting and more about forcing their ideology on you.

I'd say less akin to racism, and more akin to religion.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#595

Post by hashtag-til » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:08 PM UTC

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #523

jacquesm wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice would be (if you're in it to make a living) to get out and move into finance.

I don't get it. Do you think developers will experience some AI related job losses and finance people will not?

Well, for years now people have ben talking about a new AI bubble, that might burst at some point.

I've been in this area for a couple decades now and have seen technologies come and go, so I see my AI-related job now as just another generation of tools and making pretty sure that I keep my knowledge still valid in other non-AI related area in the tech space, so that I'm not a data-science/AI-framework-plumbing kind of person.

I keep an interest in standard C++ desktop development, which to me seem a safe harbour even time there is a collapse in some trendy technology.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#596

Post by omginternets » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:08 PM UTC

arthur2e5 wrote: post #219

> Yet more Americans know their zodiac sign than their blood type, I mean, most people get a reminder of their birthday once per year, but blood type? You have to test for that and most people just don't see that sort of thing come up. The average person neither gets blood transfusions obviously (and it's not like medical professionals take what you state about your blood type for granted, so remembering doesn't help…

True. It's not until I was writing my blood type on my chest every morning that I memorized it. Every girl with jade jewelry was reminding me of my zodiac sign long before then.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#597

Post by zanellato19 » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #576

Increased interest in astrology has been noted before in societies with declining traditional religious belief and greater feelings of uncertainty. Whereas a Christian would leave his concerns about things out of his control with God, and a stoic might simply accept his powerlessness, the anxious remainder look for other ways of trying to cope. Astrology has a track record of filling this void with its fatalism, and…

That's interesting, do you have any reading material on that?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#598

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

pndy wrote: post #424

jahewson wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I carry a silicon crystal in my pocket at all times that gives me some pretty awesome powers.

Does that come along with fighting demons and being saved by mysterious masked man wearing tuxedo and a big cylinder hat?

It does after large doses of Benadryl.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#599

Post by carlosjobim » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:11 PM UTC

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

I feel like printing this comment and nailing it to the wall, it has greatly helped me understand the hacker community and values in a way that I just couldn't put my finger on before.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#600

Post by varjag » Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 1:12 PM UTC

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #571

varjag wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.

No qualitative difference but a huge substantial difference, you are born to believe in a religion, its 24/7 in television, in school, in politicians talk, its much harder to protect yourself from religions than it is to stay away from astrology, astrology is a thing you pick up, religion is served/forced upon you from the day you’re born, when you swear in court you swear to god not to sagitter

How many people who believe in astrology but are not otherwise spiritual/religious have you ever met?