I read this a while ago. I don't know if it's because I've never been to disney world or know enough about it, but I didn't really "get" the book. Some of the concepts were interesting like dead heading and backing up but not really things I haven't read by other authors of the same decade. Although, maybe some of these ideas stem from this book so not sure. But overall I found it hard to follow, mostly because i did…
Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
51–60 of 62 posts
Re: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
#52I'm paraphrasing a quote somewhat, but "we didn't have to change their minds; they just died" haunts me 20 years after reading it.
That idea floated to the top of my my a couple of times during the COVID crisis when I was feeling misanthropic.
Re: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
#53It is reminding me of “Feersum Endjinn”. And the current season of Adventure time which is set in an alternative future Disneyworld.
Current season? I had a look and there is the new Fiona and Cake series coming at the end of August. But I thought there the last episode before that was in 2021?
Re: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe I'm extending your sentiment-vector too far in its direction (or maybe mistaking its direction entirely!), but are you at the: "So no matter what kind of future we have, there's still no point in trying, because in the end it's not about what you choose, it's about what's given to you?"-Level or a less extreme version of that-Level...?
The latter, as anything is better than what we have now; a semi-meritocracy for STEM and maybe a handful of other professions. Whuffie seems like it would open up that definition to a wide range of careers and interests (artists for example), but would still suffer from some of the nepotism after the initial uptake of the value system. I'm also wondering how one could redistribute Whuffie in a charitable kind of way
I don’t think whuffie automatically make things more meritocratic. Maybe it would just go in the other direction where things would be more about what people like socially…so popularity. So if anything it’ll be more political and cliquey.
Regarding your “nepotism”, I think it would just reflect human nature in the sense that even now children of respected parents —say, the child of a respected physicist—is afforded a sort of social standing and goodwill, and kind appraisal, because of how people appreciate their parents. But if the child is bad then that won’t be extended and it won’t save them. Similarly, if the child acts in a way that people see as against the good legacy of their parents, it wouldn’t save them. I don’t think there’s anything wrong looking kindly at the children of people you like. But I don’t think that’s really the kind of nepotism that you’re against, is it? I don’t know tho.
I know there’s other kinds of nepotism based on supposed influence or whatever, which I think is more what you’re talking about here, but I think they may be may be less under that reputation system. The example you cite of the guy’s girlfriend (I think)—a child of prominent Imagineers-I imagine her whuffie accrued simply because she wasn’t all bad and people respected her parents. It wasn’t the pernicious kind that I think you’re so against. So perhaps there’s a distinction you’re interested in considering more then.
Anyway, those collectively form part of what are just the negative side. Which I think would be less commanding and influential than the positive side.
I definitely think there is a positive side of whuffie where if you’re doing good work, which people respect, that isn’t in the current system necessarily remunerative—like in the story, the guy is earning lots of whuffie from being a missionary and helping people out— then you’ll always have more than enough. Where is in the current system you wouldn’t.
And I think that positive benefit far outweighs any amplification of already pre-existing negative human traits.
But of course I haven’t yet lived long enough in this particular version of the future so I could be wrong. Maybe it will turn out to be disaster or maybe we’ll all end up hating it.
But I think it’ll be fun to try, don’t you?
as long as it’s not administered by some centrally controlled government or state, where it could be tied to how compliant you are with not spouting “dangerous misinformation” or whatever the heresy of the day is deemed. Haha
Re: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple Newton?? Curious though, is there a way to get it on an iPhone in the built in Books app?
EPUB format, DAOITMK was listed as “for Stanza”.
Re: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
#56Related (edit: oops - not related! sorry!) Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2011) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20716878 - Aug 2019 (16 comments) Down and out in the magic kingdom – A tale of software consulting in the midwest - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11595120 - April 2016 (126 comments)
Dan your second link isn’t about the book, and it’s now a 404. Edit: neither link are about the book.
Re: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
The latter, as anything is better than what we have now; a semi-meritocracy for STEM and maybe a handful of other professions. Whuffie seems like it would open up that definition to a wide range of careers and interests (artists for example), but would still suffer from some of the nepotism after the initial uptake of the value system. I'm also wondering how one could redistribute Whuffie in a charitable kind of way
I guess you can’t change human weakness, or preference with clever technology. I don’t think whuffie automatically make things more meritocratic. Maybe it would just go in the other direction where things would be more about what people like socially…so popularity. So if anything it’ll be more political and cliquey. Regarding your “nepotism”, I think it would just reflect human nature in the sense that even now child…
Re: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
#58I read this a while ago. I don't know if it's because I've never been to disney world or know enough about it, but I didn't really "get" the book. Some of the concepts were interesting like dead heading and backing up but not really things I haven't read by other authors of the same decade. Although, maybe some of these ideas stem from this book so not sure. But overall I found it hard to follow, mostly because i did…
A lot of it might not make sense if you don't know the Disney parks at all. Doctorow well-known as a Disney nerd, and a lot of Disney fans think The Haunted Mansion is the best of all possible Disney rides. DAOITMK is a (thinly) veiled critique of fandom as an institution and an early (to me at least) preview of the bright and dark sides of fandom.
Re: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
#59I like this book and I’m never quite sure how some of the terms were Doctorow capturing what’s going on and writing it down vs inventing it. I think how whuffie was described here seems like something that will really exist and I don’t know if there were any sites displaying cumulative karma for people. It was at least the first time I read it. Also, I think the “comm” described in Eastern Standard Tribe is the first…
"I don’t know if there were any sites displaying cumulative karma for people." Slashdot did for a long time - though there were caps on it. I used to see if I could get it to the top limit, down to the bottom limit and back to the top in a single day. It wasn't really all that difficult.
And kuro5hin had particular flavors and you could sort in thread but I don’t think you could see if particular flavors summed for a particular person.
Re: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom (2003)
#60I'm paraphrasing a quote somewhat, but "we didn't have to change their minds; they just died" haunts me 20 years after reading it.
Isn't this from Rapture of the Nerds? IIRC, it was about the debate between one faction that was against mind-uploads, and another one for it. Being functionally immortal, the latter and could "wait out" the former and thus "won" the debate. That idea floated to the top of my my a couple of times during the COVID crisis when I was feeling misanthropic.
I, too, thought about this quite a bit when observing the anti-vax movement.