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Young people are flocking to astrology

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#231

Post by mypastself »

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

If it were true, and your personality traits were truly defined by positions of constellations, why would that be racist? Or at least any more so than psychological examinations and diagnoses?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#232

Post by brrtbrrt »

jahewson wrote: post #107
donatj wrote: post #97

The number of people in my life who have recently taken to astrology and started buying "healing" crystals is frankly disheartening. You try to argue with them they just call you toxic. I suspect it's a social virus.

I carry a silicon crystal in my pocket at all times that gives me some pretty awesome powers.

[dead]

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#234

Post by whstl »

oxfordmale wrote: post #207
seer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the saying goes, “all models are wrong, some models are useful” While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. Like the “flat earth model” is actually extremely useful if you don’t intend (can’t) travel significant distances - gives you a coordinate system, maps and ways to predict where you’re going to be tomorrow if you tra…

It is an useful filter to reduce the pool of eligible candidates when dating, even if it is random. It should also be seen in context. Certain celestial bodies (moon and the sun) have a massive impact on your life on earth. It is easy to see why people would interpolate this to other celestial bodies.

"It is an useful filter to reduce the pool of eligible candidates when dating, even if it is random."

I mean, yes, that's true.

But IMO it's not really at random. I don't think anyone would dump someone because that person is a Scorpio (unless they're absolute nuts). It's more like a conversation starter to let people open up and talk about their personality traits.

You bring up jokingly "ugh my ex was also a Leo... Leo are so dramatic yada yada" and you go "yeah I get it but I'm actually chill, maybe it's my Sagittarius ascendent" or something (I'm talking out of my ass here, dunno if those examples make sense... but then again I don't believe in it, so...).

It sure beats talking about the weather in the small talk scale.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#235

Post by copperx »

za3faran wrote: post #143
andsoitis wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people well versed in the religion don't actually make any such claims What is a good example?

As a Muslim, I've seen Dawkins make very basic and laughably incorrect claims about Islam. It clearly shows he has extremely shallow knowledge about what he claims to criticize. Niel DeGrasse Tyson is also guilty of the same. Here's a short clip of Dr. Sami Ameri, a published author and expert, discussing but one of Dawkin's fallacies in his book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsNpvZN76zU

The so-called expert and Dawkings have a fundamental disagreement over the definition of truth.

For Dawkings, truth is something that can be empirically proven. Truth for Dr. Ameri seems to be a logically sound argument.

Meaningful discourse can't happen if there is no agreement over the words being used.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#236

Post by chewz »

chewz wrote: post #136

https://github.com/chew-z/GoHoroscope https://github.com/chew-z/GoHoroscopeChart

I have written this little project above and as a consequence I had to learn how to compute certain astrological aspects. And oh boy, astrology isn't just not working because "it can't work". It is also terribly imprecise in its assumptions..

In theory you could calculate the astronomical part (position of certain bodies even if some are just fictional like Lilith, Iris etc.) and check for correlation with astrological predictions. But each astrological system makes so many soft assumptions that you can't decide which system is the true one.

For example you have division of a horoscope in 12 houses. But there are multiple systems of that division (Whole sign, Placidus, Regiomontanus, Krusinski/Pisa/Goelzer) each at odds with each other...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)

You might be familiar with concept of Age of Aquarius. Well estimates of when is this going to happen vary from 1844 to 3573 CE depending on astrologer...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Aquarius

https://www.astro.com/swisseph/swisseph.htm

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#238

Post by clarionbell »

Atheists need to confront the fact that they have won. In most of the Europe, including the east and in Northern America, traditional religions have crumbled under almost three centuries of secularist onslaught. Major Christian denominations, as well as Judaism, have decreased in relevance and power, to the point when even politicians nominally belonging in these groups actively work against their orthodoxy.

Saying you are religious in public invites ridicule, and proclaiming your political positions are tied to your religion is bordering on political suicide, take SNP leadership elections as one example.

Even in US, the 'nones' are becoming the largest "denomination". Overall, I think most believers understand that.

Western society is now less religious than in any point in recorded history. And atheists, especially those of the 'new' movement like Dawkins, need to understand that it's of their making. If they don't like parts of it, it's up to them to handle it.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#239

Post by worklaptopacct »

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

It's lore like any other, and it's fun to research, discuss and share with others. No need to go nuclear over people playing silly, harmless games with each other.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#240

Post by mavhc »

anon-3988 wrote: post #155
keiferski wrote: post #56

One of my favorite philosophy books is A Secular Age by Charles Taylor. It has a lot of interesting ideas, but a key one is that the “subtraction thesis” of secularity is wrong. By this, he means the narrative that secular society today simply “subtracted” religious beliefs and behaviors of yesteryear. Instead, these things have just morphed into different forms, with astrology being a prime example. It can be unders…

This is why I think that it is perhaps beneficial to not completely remove religion, but replace it with something that is more aligned to the 21st century. Let's be honest, humans are very flawed and prone to succumb to religious thinking; regardless of how smart/dumb you are. Superstitious thinking can arise from simple day to day observation. So it is much better to fill in the void with something dull like "do go…

Organised Religion is good for people, because it keeps them from believing even crazier ideas, and still tells you to see a doctor when you're sick

Most of the people who go to Organised Religion don't really believe in God, they're just in it for the tea and biscuits, ie it's a social club.

If you really believed in God and Heaven you'd become a monk or nun, logically you'd spend your finite life maximising your chance of infinite reward

Without Organised Religion you get antivax people, way more dangerous than people who spend 500 years building a cool building

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