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Young people are flocking to astrology

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#221

Post by worrycue »

seer wrote: post #164
nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

As the saying goes, “all models are wrong, some models are useful” While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. Like the “flat earth model” is actually extremely useful if you don’t intend (can’t) travel significant distances - gives you a coordinate system, maps and ways to predict where you’re going to be tomorrow if you tra…

> As the saying goes, “all models are wrong, some models are useful” While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity.

Not much of a model IMHO. You just give ultra general predictions for every sign such that everyone will go “that’s true” or “that actually happened” no matter who they are - unless they are really weird.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#222

Post by polyamid23 »

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

From time to time I mention the 13th "Ophiuchus" star sign to astrology inclined people. It is quite interesting how they react.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#223

Post by mediascreen »

mediascreen wrote: post #190
za3faran wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Muslim, I've seen Dawkins make very basic and laughably incorrect claims about Islam. It clearly shows he has extremely shallow knowledge about what he claims to criticize. Niel DeGrasse Tyson is also guilty of the same. Here's a short clip of Dr. Sami Ameri, a published author and expert, discussing but one of Dawkin's fallacies in his book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsNpvZN76zU

Ok, I just suffered through the 13 minutes of nonsens from this "expert". One problem is that he doesn't understand what he is arguing against. Dawkins doesn't argue that, because people tend to have similar beliefs as those around them, he has disproved those beliefs. He just uses it to illustrate the close minded way some people take the supremacy of their particular religion for granted. The question "What if you…

And the counter argument that Dawkins himself he is an atheist because he was born in the UK in the 20th century just proves Dawkins point. I think Dawkins himself would agree that the likelihood of him being atheist would have been far lower if he would have been born in Pakistan or in 17th century England.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#225

Post by Planktonne »

People seek for meaning beyond the concrete; this has always been true.

Astrology doesn't work, but it's exactly as meaningful and grounded as beliefs that don't get half as much criticism. Every "AGI is here and it will change everything" comment, every "the dollar is about to be replaced by bitcoin" claim made on HN is the exact same thing - people stringing breadcrumbs together to find a higher meaning than is warranted.

These are all articles of faith that people find interesting and comforting; it's disingenuous to criticise one and not the others. Disliking astrology is one thing; disliking astrology alone but accepting all the other little faiths is another.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#226

Post by piker »

arthur2e5 wrote: post #219

> Yet more Americans know their zodiac sign than their blood type, I mean, most people get a reminder of their birthday once per year, but blood type? You have to test for that and most people just don't see that sort of thing come up. The average person neither gets blood transfusions obviously (and it's not like medical professionals take what you state about your blood type for granted, so remembering doesn't help…

Also the naming convention isn't memorable at all compared to the Zodiac which even includes an emblem.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#227

Post by arthur2e5 »

luc4sdreyer wrote: post #68
drooby wrote: post #30

I always love getting my tarot cards read. Do I believe it has special knowledge of the universe? Absolutely not. Does it get my thinking creatively and critically about the personal story that I have with my self? Yes. And that has some value.

Of the atheist STEM postgrad degree people I know that love to talk about astrology/tarot, they usually retreat to this type to defence: it's a useful tool for introspection. Sure. But then if I ask them to admit that believing in it is unscientific, the response is something along the lines of "well it could be true". They know there's no evidence for it, but they're probably afraid of offending close friends that a…

White noise can occasionally make images seem sharper[1] or enhance perception of pure tones.[2] (Tinfoil hat on) Astrology and tarot might be doing the same thing for introspection. Confirmation bias will at least make you more sure about something, and… indeed people do these stuff to feel more sure about themselves.

[1] https://library.imaging.org/admin/apis/public/api/ist/websit..., https://www.spij.jp/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/BSPIJ24_019.p...

[2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191112142926.h...

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#228

Post by jemmyw »

za3faran wrote: post #143
andsoitis wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people well versed in the religion don't actually make any such claims What is a good example?

As a Muslim, I've seen Dawkins make very basic and laughably incorrect claims about Islam. It clearly shows he has extremely shallow knowledge about what he claims to criticize. Niel DeGrasse Tyson is also guilty of the same. Here's a short clip of Dr. Sami Ameri, a published author and expert, discussing but one of Dawkin's fallacies in his book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsNpvZN76zU

Does it matter all that much that they get some nuances to Islam, or other religions, incorrect when the central tenant is that there is no God / spiritual being? Like arguing over the cake decorations instead of tackling the central issue of the sponge being made of chocolate or turds.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#229

Post by richardw »

idoubtit wrote: post #187
anon-3988 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I think that it is perhaps beneficial to not completely remove religion, but replace it with something that is more aligned to the 21st century. Let's be honest, humans are very flawed and prone to succumb to religious thinking; regardless of how smart/dumb you are. Superstitious thinking can arise from simple day to day observation. So it is much better to fill in the void with something dull like "do go…

What's the point if this mysticism doesn't make "better" people than any random superstition or religion? I fear it's more dangerous than most basic superstitions. I mean, these "self-introspection, consciousness-obsessed cultures like Hindu and Buddhism" are a source of hatred and violence. The Hindu majority is India is on this brutal trend. And in Burma-Birmania-Myanmar, the Buddhist population was almost unanimou…

I’d be surprised if it’s not co-opted to do so. We saw what happened with vaccines: global tribes with half-baked ideas all swirling around crazy leaders. Only way it’s not going to be co-opted is if it can’t be due to some fundamental reason.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#230

Post by worrycue »

saiya-jin wrote: post #192
peyton wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it or not, the replacement is politics. Atheists have edged out Jews as the most politically active group in the US, even when controlling for education. Because they donate money to politicians at incredible rates, expect more messaging aimed at this group.

that's pretty messed up take from parent's suggestion... and I don't agree a zilch, politics cater to other aspects of our (often irrational) needs compared to what religions aim for

> politics cater to other aspects of our (often irrational) needs compared to what religions aim for

It’s a team to bat for and even comes with its own dogma for you to blindly believe in.

Usually lead by charismatic leaders providing/promising simple and easy to understand explanations/solutions to complex problems.

To quote H L Mencken,

“Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.”

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