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All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

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Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#491

Post by mvncleaninst »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #362
xmddmx wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an educator, and a social democrat (approximately) so "yes"? What saddens me is that grand (and simple) plan "free education for all" gets watered down and chipped away to "free education for those who have money or connections" and later attempts to shore it up offten amount to "free education for $special_group". While I don't deny $special_group should get free education, what gets me is all the special-pleadi…

I understand and empathize, but you also realize that college in the 60's and in the 2020's are completely different beasts no, right? The genie is out of the lamp, but we literally don't have the room to stuff it back in. CA's population has tripled in 60 years, and high school graduation rates have risen signifigantly (which is of course good). There are more students competing for university today than there were…

> CA's population has tripled in 60 years

Somewhat unrelated, but several states have seen unexpected growth since that time period

Kind of hard to believe, but in 1950 Florida and Kentucky had about the same population. Since then Florida has 8x'ed (I think because of modern AC). Other states (especially in the south and southwest) have seen similar levels of growth to CA. I don't see how the problem you mentioned is specific to California

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_census

https://www.vox.com/2015/6/27/8854037/us-population-history-...

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#493

Post by slt2021 »

andrekandre wrote: post #417
slt2021 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem with free tuitition is it only incentivizes cash grab from educational institutions. There will be gazillion universities overnight similar to coding bootcamps - all competing for state funded tuition without any regard to quality

> Problem with free tuitition is it only incentivizes cash grab from educational institutions. that assumes that private schools would be the beneficiaries no? my understanding is that "free college" usually applies to public institutions (state college/universities)...?

State bureaucrats will rush and charter gazillion piss poor grade universities to “meet increased demand” - what difference that would make?

Problem is with American University itself, its overbloated mandate, abysmal efficiency, and dysfunctional bureacracy that has very little to do with actual education and its outcomes

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#494

Post by slt2021 »

hollandheese wrote: post #429
slt2021 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem with free tuitition is it only incentivizes cash grab from educational institutions. There will be gazillion universities overnight similar to coding bootcamps - all competing for state funded tuition without any regard to quality

States don’t pay the tuition for private K-12 students and they won’t pay the tuition for private colleges.

Nor compare the quality of average public school with average private school?

The difference is day and night, especially in academics.

Public schools became sort of free daycare. I fear public universities will become something like that plus job program for bureacrats unemployable anywhere else (just like with any state government)

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#495

Post by refurb »

superchroma wrote: post #454
refurb wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at California if you want to see a failed attempt at reform - namely NOT incarcerating criminals. The results is worsening crime rates and multiple examples of serial recidivism where the public pays the cost through lower quality of life. I’m not saying there isn’t room for reform, but some people need to be in prison not for their own good, but for the public’s good.

You're making non-points. California has not effectively deployed various progressive policies. There exists certain people who are intractably violent or cruel and who cannot be healed or changed with the cutting edge of therapy or medicine. So what? This knowledge is not a sufficient excuse to give up on the problem. The status quo is unacceptable. That's the key fact.

California has not effectively deployed various progressive policies

Oh yes it has. Mass release of violent criminals during Covid. Repeat offenders being released even for violent crimes.

They are finally figuring out that these are the exact people who cause so many crimes. Shocking!

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#496

Post by snotrockets »

slashdev wrote: post #358
snotrockets wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't being freed from slavery the same as being freshly immigrated with 0$? The US economy, and hence those immigrants, were better off, because of the gains made from slavery.

By that logic, African-Americans also benefit from that economy, and ironically the gains made from slavery.

Not as much as white people did, and still do.

PS your terminology shows your biases.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#497

Post by pawelmurias »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #386

I'm all for making education more accessible, but why does it have to be one extreme or the other (free or tuition) - if taxpayers are making education free, can't we levy a requirement for the graduate to at least volunteer Peace Corps style? Perhaps the term of volunteering could be inversely proportional to their grade such that someone who drops out early has to volunteer for a longer period of time.

It's not volunteering if you are forced to do it.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#498

Post by inemesitaffia »

l33t233372 wrote: post #320
jonathanlb wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that enslaved people and their enslavers are no longer alive, but the legacy of slavery has left significant and enduring socio-economic disparities between descendants of enslaved people and those who are not. Inequalities in wealth, education, health, and opportunities persist, often along racial lines. These disparities aren't merely coincidental, but have been reinforced by racially discriminatory polic…

> the devastating effects of the Atlantic slave trade, which significantly hindered their development It was my understanding that most of the slaves traded were already slaves, so it wasn’t just plundering the continent to kidnap people. I’m not particularly well studied about this. Am I wrong? What were the effects that hindered the continent’s development? Was it the incentive to capture slaves to trade led to mor…

Demand drove increased supply.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#499

Post by nicoburns »

uoaei wrote: post #488
quag wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of the USA the point of university is education. Only in the USA have I seen the meme that the point of universities is something other than education. I’m still trying to work out how and why there is a difference. Can you help me understand what the point is if it isn’t education?

Socializing, learning to live with others, providing opportunities to join social and professional clubs/organizations, navigation of longer-timeline projects and assignments, etc. You could call all of these 'education' but the usual and implicit image of education in people's minds is lectures and tutoring sessions so it's worth highlighting these other aspects. All of these are present in universities around the w…

> Socializing, learning to live with others, providing opportunities to join social and professional clubs/organizations, navigation of longer-timeline projects and assignments, etc.

These are all things that happen in universities, but they are also all things that young people have the opportunity to do outside of university.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#500

Post by bandrami »

xmddmx wrote: post #294

This idea is not really new - the California Master Plan for Education essentially promised a free higher education to everyone in California. In 1960. [1] As these things go, the plan was eroded over time, with the (in)famous Proposition 13 of 1978 dealing a big blow. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Master_Plan_for_Hig...

It was a lot easier to make college free when 20% of your high school graduates went on to college. Now that it's over 50% that's harder.

OTOH, that in itself shows that the increased tuition hasn't actually kept people from going to college.

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