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Government URLs that don't end in .gov

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Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#181

Post by JNRowe »

N19PEDL2 wrote: post #180
evanb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK doesn't put the country of origin on their postage stamps, because they invented them [1], so there were no ambiguities to lift. That's the same reason the US is +1 country code and holds .gov [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_hist...

Also the same reason, I guess, English-speaking countries have 0 and 1 as country codes in ISBN numbers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISBN & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISBN_registration_grou...

There was an interesting use case for the early zero language code. It allowed the checksum to remain intact when switching from early SBN to ISBN, all you had to do was prefix with zero. It isn't quite so simple today, if you find an old British book you can't simply tack a zero on the front.

It is mentioned in the Wikipedia link, but buried a little. I realise ISBN history is the epitome of super-nerdy, but the evolution path from $just_some_retailer through to the Bookland "country" is really quite interesting from an interoperability perspective.

Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#182

Post by jomar »

Rexxar wrote: post #168
jomar wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was introduced in 1985, almost 40 years ago. For how many decades is this going to be a reasonable argument? In 100 years, will it still be reasonable for the USA to say "we built the thing, so it is appropriate for us to continue to be the default country in domain names. The rest of you must use your ccTLDs, but we remain special." In 200 years? The only non-pathetic option is for the United States to transiti…

Why do you think other government/country want to use an English abbreviation for their government entities ? Even for Latin language that use a similar word "gouv" (french), "gob" (spanish) or "guv" (romanian) would be more natural.

Various government departments of those countries use domains under .gouv.fr, .gob.es, .gov.ro respectively. The argument is that fairness and clarity would suggest that the US likewise use .gov.us or some other convention of their choice under .us.

Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#183

Post by [deleted] »

kelnos wrote: post #145
plandis wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s the reasonable argument: US citizens are now used to .gov domain names being solely used by US government entities. They won’t change it, nor should they, as forcing domain name changes will simply add confusion for Americans. Just because you don’t like that the US government has first mover advantage isn’t a good reason to change this.

I don't really think this is much of an issue. It's not like the change would happen immediately. Each .gov website is likely run by different agencies, so they wouldn't end up switching all at the same time. It's a pretty simple matter to register a corresponding .gov.us domain for each existing .gov domain. Then each .gov domain owner would have to configure their web server properly, and can phase in a redirect fr…

[deleted]

Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#184

Post by erik_seaberg »

kelnos wrote: post #145
plandis wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s the reasonable argument: US citizens are now used to .gov domain names being solely used by US government entities. They won’t change it, nor should they, as forcing domain name changes will simply add confusion for Americans. Just because you don’t like that the US government has first mover advantage isn’t a good reason to change this.

I don't really think this is much of an issue. It's not like the change would happen immediately. Each .gov website is likely run by different agencies, so they wouldn't end up switching all at the same time. It's a pretty simple matter to register a corresponding .gov.us domain for each existing .gov domain. Then each .gov domain owner would have to configure their web server properly, and can phase in a redirect fr…

The redirects are fine but probably take effort depending on how those backends work. They also need to be permanent to avoid link rot.

Edit: I’ve been in stacks of microservices for a while, and it just occurred to me that I’m not sure how cookies can be migrated between domains.

Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#185

Post by vladharbuz »

pc86 wrote: post #21
vladharbuz wrote: post #13

Always found it arbitrary that .gov is only for use by the US.

Had another country had a primary role in inventing the internet, they would probably have it (or more likely, the US would be .gov.us and everyone else would be whatever they are today).

I don’t understand this argument. Are you saying the internet should be organised in a way that benefits the US, even if it is confusing for people in other countries? By your reasoning, it would make sense for .com to be US-exclusive because the US had a primary role in inventing the internet. Let’s pause to ask ourselves “what is an actually good system?” instead of “how can we justify US privilege?”.

Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#186

Post by ourmandave »

ourmandave wrote: post #40
samwillis wrote: post #11

I think it's particularly interesting that the US use .gov and not .gov.us (as a Brit). I'm sure there are oversights on who can acquire an inherently international .gov domain, but for example here in the UK .gov.uk domains have a strict application process [0] managed by central government. It just seems to me that it would be more secure, and more reassuring to citizens and visitors that they are on the correct si…

Do .gov's have to be renewed every year with ICANN? What if a dept lets theirs lapse and some squatter swoops in and takes it? We'll start the bidding at $1B USD...

During the government shutdown some TLS certificates expired, so depending how long it goes a domain renewal could get missed because nobody is working or the check bounces.

Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#187

Post by wlonkly »

graypegg wrote: post #64
Sanzig wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.gc.ca exists for that exact purpose. It has the advantage of being bilingual ("GC" expands to both "Government of Canada" and "Gouvernement du Canada", .gov.ca omits the "u" in the French word gouvernement ). I believe the canada.ca thing relates to the centralization of federal government IT under Shared Services Canada (SSC) in 2011. SSC is an attempt to make a "one stop shop" for government IT services, and Canad…

I completely forgot about gc.ca. I'm surprised they haven't kept with it! Didn't know about SCC, resigning over that is a pretty strong indicator of how the internals of the federal government's IT decision makers work haha.

They have. Canada.ca is the "marketing site", basically, and all of the federal internal systems and departmental apps are in .gc.ca, usually on a cryptic subdomain which is the English and French acronyms for the department.

Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#188

Post by graypegg »

wlonkly wrote: post #187
graypegg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely forgot about gc.ca. I'm surprised they haven't kept with it! Didn't know about SCC, resigning over that is a pretty strong indicator of how the internals of the federal government's IT decision makers work haha.

They have. Canada.ca is the "marketing site", basically, and all of the federal internal systems and departmental apps are in .gc.ca, usually on a cryptic subdomain which is the English and French acronyms for the department.

Well that's good I guess. Just saying it would be nice for the external things I'm familiar with.

Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#189

Post by bob-09 »

ehPReth wrote: post #115
brown wrote: post #102

My favorite URL oddity has to be "id.me" for U.S. Citizen identity services. Seems a bit odd to use a Montenegro domain, doesn't it?

It seems to be run by a third-party company that the government latched on to for some reason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID.me

Nothing out of the ordinary for individual government departments to turn to private contractors when the GSA doesn't offer them a service they need when they need it.

GSA has since developed login.gov, but there hasn't been a mandate that other agencies have to use it over third-parties.

Re: Government URLs that don't end in .gov

#190

Post by pc86 »

vladharbuz wrote: post #185
pc86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had another country had a primary role in inventing the internet, they would probably have it (or more likely, the US would be .gov.us and everyone else would be whatever they are today).

I don’t understand this argument. Are you saying the internet should be organised in a way that benefits the US, even if it is confusing for people in other countries? By your reasoning, it would make sense for .com to be US-exclusive because the US had a primary role in inventing the internet. Let’s pause to ask ourselves “what is an actually good system?” instead of “how can we justify US privilege?”.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that's what led to where we are today.
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