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Young people are flocking to astrology

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#71

Post by mvncleaninst »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #6
CharlesW wrote: post #5

> “We need to take people who use astrology seriously, in order to understand how people live in the world, either in the past or in the present,” Kassell said. We definitely need to take them at least as seriously as people who believe in ghosts, crystals, and/or their ability to change the world through scents sold exclusively via MLMs.

Astrology more than those things seems to be used as a sideways tool for introspection and self-knowledge. And is clearly an attempt to connect to the transcendental, the divine, the unknowable, why are we here and what am I meant to do with myself, etc. Both of those pursuits are worthy of curiosity and respect. And astrology itself is an ancient practice, few traditions are that long-lived at all and certainly not…

Ideas for the sake of ideas are an infinite time sink. Someone who wastes decades studying astrology or metaphysics or some other pseudo-scientific thing that doesn't deliver tangible value is a moron by definition

An example: you could spend a couple years studying cooking and become a chef. Or you could spend a couple years studying metaphysics and become a person with a bunch of ideas

And I'll add a caveat: it's one thing to do astrology because the rest of the friend group is doing it, it's another thing to do it for self-knowledge

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#72

Post by nprateem »

figital wrote: post #63

There are epigenetic markers which can identify the season or perhaps even month you were born. If you might think there is a link between personality and birth order and that perhaps metaphor is useful in storytelling or group dynamics … then one could loosely link these concepts together and consider it more than something like a party trick.

If there are such markers, the flaw in astrology is not taking into account the hemisphere. Someone born in July would be born in summer in the northern hemisphere but winter in the south, so they can't possibly have been exposed to the same environmental factors growing up.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#73

Post by im3w1l »

Barrin92 wrote: post #46
permo-w wrote: post #14

I think the easy way to look at this is that a certain segment of society will always want to believe in something beyond the observable world with the decline of organised religion amongst Western Europeans, astrology is one way they fill that void if astrology doesn't float your boat, there's always witchcraft and tarot, or crystals and alternative medicine. or if you're less inclined towards new-age horse you can…

>as of now anyway - is a harmless, if extremely stupid, outlet As the article mentions people go as far as turning down relationships because of "mismatched star signs". That to me is not harmless at all, people make significant decisions based on superstition apparently exercising quite a lot of prejudice. Good friend of my family on my mother's side always was into herbal alternative medicine and people laughed it…

> As the article mentions people go as far as turning down relationships because of "mismatched star signs". That to me is not harmless at all, people make significant decisions based on superstition apparently exercising quite a lot of prejudice.

If we take for granted that most guys are decent and yet many woman keep falling for the wrong guys, then perhaps a method that essentially produces a random result might be an improvement..

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#74

Post by luc4sdreyer »

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

I've experienced similar things many times. Maybe in the future I should propose a $10 bet, where they get three guesses.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#75

Post by photochemsyn »

Perhaps they're also flocking to alien UFO beliefs?

Bet they're not flocking to beliefs that the Washington Post has been converted into a Jeff Bezos disinformation platform whose central goal is to direct more government contract to Jeff Bezos industies like AWS, right?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#76

Post by Supermancho »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #64

[flagged]

> There must be something in the water that is making people so stupid.

I believe it's a combination of things. Bear with me.

First, the increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, as well as pollution in urban centers, especially the dense populations around major routes (freeway brake pad dust, et al).^

Second, the capitalist methodology (in the US) which promotes a type of behavioral linear regression to meaningfully achieve goals, which few young people inherently believe in. ie Work hard/sacrifice on specific things early, to have the things you want later.

Third, information overload which hinders the ability to select indicators on which to base those variables.

Fourth, a belief that confounds ease of access with accuracy (short attention span).

Fifth, the astrology community is a combination of new-age mysticism, community, pschology, and social reinforcement. It's a great way to meet people and make friends, with limited judgement (leave it up to the stars).

^ Ironically, due to the digital revolution, knowledge about toxins (eg community water) is highly available, quickly discovered, and reported. Certainly more widely than in previous decades.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#77

Post by luc4sdreyer »

keiferski wrote: post #56

One of my favorite philosophy books is A Secular Age by Charles Taylor. It has a lot of interesting ideas, but a key one is that the “subtraction thesis” of secularity is wrong. By this, he means the narrative that secular society today simply “subtracted” religious beliefs and behaviors of yesteryear. Instead, these things have just morphed into different forms, with astrology being a prime example. It can be unders…

I don't want to support this idea because it goes against my worldview as an atheist from a very conservative society. I grew up on Hitchens and Dawkins.

But the YouGov poll [1] that the WaPo article is based seems to support this idea: 30% of Agnostics answered yes to the following question: "Do you believe in astrology, or that the position of the stars and planets influence people’s lives?"

[1]: https://today.yougov.com/topics/entertainment/articles-repor...

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#78

Post by Given_47 »

bnralt wrote: post #52
Tainnor wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the easy way to look at this is that a certain segment of society will always want to believe in something beyond the observable world Even if you believe that, this can also in principle be studied at least somewhat more rigorously by considering philosophy. There's no "right" or "wrong" answer to "is there anything beyond the observable world?", but there's arguments that are principled and reasoned and o…

I don't even think it's just metaphysics. People in general like to find patterns in the world even where none exist. The LessWrong community is somewhat infamous for abusing statistics. Political predictions sites like 538 have put out stuff that's not much better than astrology (specifically the granular primary predictions they did), but they make a lot of money feeding people who don't know better. A sense of ord…

Yea the 538 stuff (at least that audience) is a prime example of the McNamara fallacy[0]. It’s easy for people to find comfort in what can/is being measured and appoint it as objective truth, and consequently disregard anything that can’t be easily quantified.

Like u alluded to, people like to at least feel in control. And in the case of astrology it manifests in being able to have a simple explanation for things.

And now that I think about it, I’m sort of puzzled y more things don’t seem to get chalked up to random chance. It’s a simple enough explanation and seems ripe for abuse but strangely doesn’t seem to be. Maybe cuz by definition, its randomness isn’t that satisfying of a conclusion for people to draw

[0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNamara_fallacy

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#79

Post by nprateem »

mvncleaninst wrote: post #71
giraffe_lady wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astrology more than those things seems to be used as a sideways tool for introspection and self-knowledge. And is clearly an attempt to connect to the transcendental, the divine, the unknowable, why are we here and what am I meant to do with myself, etc. Both of those pursuits are worthy of curiosity and respect. And astrology itself is an ancient practice, few traditions are that long-lived at all and certainly not…

Ideas for the sake of ideas are an infinite time sink. Someone who wastes decades studying astrology or metaphysics or some other pseudo-scientific thing that doesn't deliver tangible value is a moron by definition An example: you could spend a couple years studying cooking and become a chef. Or you could spend a couple years studying metaphysics and become a person with a bunch of ideas And I'll add a caveat: it's o…

The danger with this attitude is drawing the line.

Sitting around watching your breath as practiced by Buddhists is a useless "time sink" until you hit on the bliss states of the jhanas. As most people will never experience these they may believe they don't exist but they're documented and accessible with perseverance.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#80

Post by Lammy »

The celestial objects probably have nothing to do with it besides serving as convenient and consistent identifiers, but why wouldn't the time of year of a person's birth have an effect on their development? Like if a toddler is of the age for first words in summer where long daylight and warm weather encourages interaction with more people than just immediate family vs being that age in winter where short cold days are often spent inside around the same few people. For a personal example I was a """gifted kid""" in public school a.k.a. almost a year older than many of my classmates thanks to October birthday just after the cutoff date for each school year enrollment.

Also a lot of anti-astrology screeds have an air of “I don't hate women, I just hate everything women like” lol

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