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All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

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Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#401

Post by nxx788 »

xmddmx wrote: post #380
lisper wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm approximately a social democrat too, but I'm also a pragmatist. Asking for "free education" is like a child asking for a pony. Education, like everything, costs money, and we can't just wave a magic wand and change that. The only question is who pays for it: the student, or someone else. "Free education" really means education paid for by society at large rather than students. I'm not saying that's a bad idea. It…

"social democrat" - are you sure? the point remains: some services are social goods and should be treated as such, so that "nobody lacks for inability to pay". That's not literally "free" but has the same meaning in practice.

I'm a leftist, left of democratic socialist and definitely left of social democrat. But can we please not point fingers and question people's motives? If someone says they are X, then we should believe them until there's a preponderance of evidence to the contrary.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#402

Post by Sparkyte »

What people are failing to understand with this is that this is target people who are foster and don't have a financial supporter.

I see people talk bad and stuff about how this shouldn't be. However those with parents usually have some sort of financial support.

It does suck it is free-free, because it doesn't teach the foster kid important life lessons, but there is more merit to this.

I still think the kid has to pass the accepting test and I think this is the case. If the kid does well, passed the acceptance test they are clear to learn.

Foster kids are not adopted kids, you can adopt but that makes them your kid. Foster kids have sponsor dads and moms.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#403

Post by bombcar »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #354
throwaway5959 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are you voting for that will raise wages for teachers? Or are you looking to cut wages for burger flippers.

I honestly don't know. I'm in California and "let's not make our teachers minimum wage slaves" wasnt on any candidate's platform from what I researched. Let alone on any of the viable candidates. If no one represents my ideals, what can I do?

California is the state most likely to be able to fix it, simply get a proposition passed that says:

> No administrator of any education system may be paid more than twice the lowest-paid teacher, no matter how many hours that teacher worked during the school year. A teacher is anyone who is responsible or in charge of children or students. Political salaries are deemed administrative of the educational system that is under the purview of that elected body.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#404

Post by nxx788 »

jonhohle wrote: post #399
xmddmx wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"social democrat" - are you sure? the point remains: some services are social goods and should be treated as such, so that "nobody lacks for inability to pay". That's not literally "free" but has the same meaning in practice.

Something is not free if someone else is forced to pay for it. It’s really easy to be generous with other people’s resources.

That's not how the language works. We have long ago decided that "free", when used in the context of social services, is correct enough to be understood.

Do you think that definition is bad? If so, maybe you'll catch more nibbles by trying to engage in a dialog?

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#405

Post by leafmeal »

Sparkyte wrote: post #402

What people are failing to understand with this is that this is target people who are foster and don't have a financial supporter. I see people talk bad and stuff about how this shouldn't be. However those with parents usually have some sort of financial support. It does suck it is free-free, because it doesn't teach the foster kid important life lessons, but there is more merit to this. I still think the kid has to…

>It does suck it is free-free, because it doesn't teach the foster kid important life lessons, but there is more merit to this.

What about the many countries with free university for everyone? Are those students missing out on important life lessons as well?

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#406

Post by nxx788 »

giantg2 wrote: post #174
serf wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the high school era in ones' life has a lot of opportunity for personal hardship; in many ways it's the beginning of personal responsibility for a lot of people. in other words : it's less likely that an elementary school student has to juggle an unwanted pregnancy, an estranged family, and a job at McDonalds; it's not that uncommon later on.

I do get that. I knew people who had a kid, family issues, substance issues, etc and still managed to graduate. I know there are probably others who wouldn't graduate in similar situations or worse ones. It still shocks me that the dropout rate is so high.

As someone who was homeless in high school (but still graduated thanks to some incredible non-familial adults), it's very easy to think, "fuck it, I'm out, I don't need this extra stress". Doing homework is real fucking hard when you don't have anywhere that's home.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#407

Post by kibwen »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #18

As a raging capitalist, I am for this

In order for market economies to work (to say nothing of democracies), an educated populace is non-negotiable. The irony is that if you want free markets to work efficiently, you can't leave education to the free market.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#408

Post by nxx788 »

mynameishere wrote: post #303
999900000999 wrote: post #81

Now in a better world we'd drop a word from this sentence and make it free for all state residents. That's closer to what it used to be. Realistically this doesn't change much since it's extremely unlikely a foster kid wouldn't qualify for a full ride prior to this. The only people who really get screwed are middle class families who make too much to qualify for aid, but can't really afford to pay for school.

but can't really afford to pay for school Oh, they're paying for it all right.

They are paying no matter what. If you don't educate kids well, you are just paying for it when you retire and get fucked by a weak workforce.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#409

Post by vel0city »

LouisSayers wrote: post #396
01100011 wrote: post #222

Can I just give my 17 year old up for adoption then? Just curious...

... and can a relative be a foster parent?

Bonus points idea. Have a grandparent take up residency in a target out of state area in a cheap apartment a few years ahead of time, just to meet residency requirements. Then at 17 have the grandparent foster the minor. Boom, free college wherever you want.

Re: All foster kids in California can now attend any state college for free

#410

Post by krapp »

dopidopHN wrote: post #387
krapp wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't forget. It would just be expensive, and Americans simply don't want their hard-earned tax dollars to pay to feed other people's kids, so schools have to resort to cheap solutions. It took radical activism (mostly by the black community and groups like the black panthers) just to get school lunches to begin with, and Republicans/Conservatives have been trying to tear it down ever since.

I get your US context. That’s a handful. Thanks for providing that ( irony : 0% ) I just want to play devils advocate on the cost : How would be paying people minimum wage to batch cook food from scratch with local produce be more expensive ? We did that for centuries without conserve, fridge and NPK to grow our food. We now have access to cheap energy ( historically speaking ) and a variety of preservation methods.…

>How would be paying people minimum wage to batch cook food from scratch with local produce be more expensive ?

Local produce is more expensive, as is cooking from scratch[0]. Another problem is that won't scale. You can't feed millions of kids twice a day every weekday from the local farmers' market.

[0] https://www.vox.com/videos/2018/3/22/17152460/healthy-eating...

> how would be our Republicans friends do lunch for schools? Every kids bring a box ?

Make them pay for it. If they can't pay, they don't eat.

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