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Young people are flocking to astrology

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#11

Post by lakomen »

Well, there's astrology and astrology.

The newspaper astrology that is so broad you can't take it seriously.

Then there's the birth horoscope z the natal chart and whatever which is, believe it or not, more accurate.

Astrology is also the oldest form of psychology, it's easily accessible and popular because of it.

Why would certain planet not represent certain traits? Who has really studied it scientifically?

There's more than black and white in this universe.

When you're young and this article could've been published at any time, 90s 60s 2020s, young people will always be interested to find out more about themselves. And not just young people.

We want to explain the world, learn about it, about ourself. Better astrology than religion.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#12

Post by lakomen »

InexSquirrel wrote: post #10
giraffe_lady wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astrology more than those things seems to be used as a sideways tool for introspection and self-knowledge. And is clearly an attempt to connect to the transcendental, the divine, the unknowable, why are we here and what am I meant to do with myself, etc. Both of those pursuits are worthy of curiosity and respect. And astrology itself is an ancient practice, few traditions are that long-lived at all and certainly not…

I think it's fine to not dismiss something out of hand if you don't know anything about it (as you say that you know nothing of astrology), but if someone _does_ know something about it, I think it's fine for them to be dismissive of it if they choose to. It's similar to saying "I know nothing of homeopathy, so won't dismiss it" (a fine position), but then you can't critique someone who _does_ know something about it…

But are they dismissing it for the right reasons? Did those reasons happen to be the way they are because they expected this outcome from the beginning?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#13

Post by Tainnor »

lakomen wrote: post #11

Well, there's astrology and astrology. The newspaper astrology that is so broad you can't take it seriously. Then there's the birth horoscope z the natal chart and whatever which is, believe it or not, more accurate. Astrology is also the oldest form of psychology, it's easily accessible and popular because of it. Why would certain planet not represent certain traits? Who has really studied it scientifically? There's…

> Why would certain planet not represent certain traits?

That's really the best defense you can give? "It's not unconceivable, so it has to be true"?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#14

Post by permo-w »

I think the easy way to look at this is that a certain segment of society will always want to believe in something beyond the observable world

with the decline of organised religion amongst Western Europeans, astrology is one way they fill that void

if astrology doesn't float your boat, there's always witchcraft and tarot, or crystals and alternative medicine. or if you're less inclined towards new-age horse you can believe in QAnon and cryptids and Graham Hancock and ivermectin. basically there are always going to be people like this, and astrology - as of now anyway - is a harmless, if extremely stupid, outlet for it

perhaps in 60 years it'll be death camps for Scorpios and I'll have to eat my words, but that seems unlikely

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#15

Post by stcroixx »

lakomen wrote: post #11

Well, there's astrology and astrology. The newspaper astrology that is so broad you can't take it seriously. Then there's the birth horoscope z the natal chart and whatever which is, believe it or not, more accurate. Astrology is also the oldest form of psychology, it's easily accessible and popular because of it. Why would certain planet not represent certain traits? Who has really studied it scientifically? There's…

I was in high school in the early 90s and no young people I knew were into this. Our boomer ex-hippie parents were into it and we made fun of it hard.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#16

Post by leashless »

My guru (I'm Indian) was an astrologer. Every time Mars goes retrograde I tell people "astrology is nonsense, but this Mars retrograde thing gets me every time..." and surely enough, every time...

I was raised on Karl Popper and Thomas Kuhn. There can't be anything to it. It has to be nonsense.

December 06 2024 is the next Mars retrograde. See if things don't go completely to hell right around then.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#17

Post by Tainnor »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #6
CharlesW wrote: post #5

> “We need to take people who use astrology seriously, in order to understand how people live in the world, either in the past or in the present,” Kassell said. We definitely need to take them at least as seriously as people who believe in ghosts, crystals, and/or their ability to change the world through scents sold exclusively via MLMs.

Astrology more than those things seems to be used as a sideways tool for introspection and self-knowledge. And is clearly an attempt to connect to the transcendental, the divine, the unknowable, why are we here and what am I meant to do with myself, etc. Both of those pursuits are worthy of curiosity and respect. And astrology itself is an ancient practice, few traditions are that long-lived at all and certainly not…

I don't think there's any value in astrology. The fact that people believed in it (and still do) for a very long time doesn't change that, as humanity has had many long-standing beliefs that turned out to be entirely wrong (e.g. geocentrism, that there was something particular about biochemistry that couldn't be recreated synthetically, aether, ...).

The fact that it may serve a certain psychological function means that we can understand why humans are intrigued by it. And I do agree that we shouldn't be too quick with judgements, because all humans are fundamentally irrational and we have to expend some very conscious effort to think rationally (and nobody can claim to do that at all times, so we all have certain irrational beliefs).

But that doesn't change whether astrology itself is, epistemically, telling us anything of value about the nature of the world, which I'm pretty convinced it doesn't.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#18

Post by krapp »

lakomen wrote: post #11

Well, there's astrology and astrology. The newspaper astrology that is so broad you can't take it seriously. Then there's the birth horoscope z the natal chart and whatever which is, believe it or not, more accurate. Astrology is also the oldest form of psychology, it's easily accessible and popular because of it. Why would certain planet not represent certain traits? Who has really studied it scientifically? There's…

>Why would certain planet not represent certain traits?

Why would they? How would they possibly?

>Who has really studied it scientifically?

Many, many people, over many, many years. Absolutely no scientifically credible or experimentally replicable effect has ever been found to lend any credence whatsoever to astrology, in any form, ever. Here is a wikipedia article on the subject to get you started[0]. You can find other examples with a simple Google search.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#19

Post by Tainnor »

permo-w wrote: post #14

I think the easy way to look at this is that a certain segment of society will always want to believe in something beyond the observable world with the decline of organised religion amongst Western Europeans, astrology is one way they fill that void if astrology doesn't float your boat, there's always witchcraft and tarot, or crystals and alternative medicine. or if you're less inclined towards new-age horse you can…

> I think the easy way to look at this is that a certain segment of society will always want to believe in something beyond the observable world

Even if you believe that, this can also in principle be studied at least somewhat more rigorously by considering philosophy.

There's no "right" or "wrong" answer to "is there anything beyond the observable world?", but there's arguments that are principled and reasoned and others that aren't even internally consistent.

I'll agree though that majoring in metaphysics is unlikely to be something many people will be able to (or willing to) achieve.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#20

Post by krapp »

Tainnor wrote: post #13
lakomen wrote: post #11

Well, there's astrology and astrology. The newspaper astrology that is so broad you can't take it seriously. Then there's the birth horoscope z the natal chart and whatever which is, believe it or not, more accurate. Astrology is also the oldest form of psychology, it's easily accessible and popular because of it. Why would certain planet not represent certain traits? Who has really studied it scientifically? There's…

> Why would certain planet not represent certain traits? That's really the best defense you can give? "It's not unconceivable, so it has to be true"?

Millions of people over thousands of years can't be wrong!

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be afk for a while because I recently caught a miasma and need to bleed the demons out from my bilious humors.

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