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Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

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Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#71

Post by ljm »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #55
baz00 wrote: post #2

Someone did this recently to me i.e. showed me something I'd signed which I didn't. Fortunately this lead to their demise as I am friends with their manager which was unknown by the party in question. Historically I tend to try something on with employment contracts too - I return an unsigned copy to the company. Only 1 out of 6 companies I worked for didn't just stick it in a filing cabinet and forget about it. Ulti…

> It must be the full document plaintext and date signed with your private key and should be verifiable with your public key by a court before a claim is even approachable. This is called a notary public. Its a routine requirement with immigration documents. .They can also certify copies as true. In UK for sone reason it costs over £100, and noone uses them, but in eastern europe its common and notarising documents i…

Can’t speak for every country in Europe but once you get a national ID or residence permit in some of them then the card will contain a chip with a certificate that can be used for public key crypto.

If you need to sign something then you sign it with your ID. Same ID can get you into your accounts online.

No different to Estonia’s digital ID scheme a decade ago.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#72

Post by ghaff »

noodlesUK wrote: post #65
ghaff wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it works in the US. You show the notary your passport or driver's license, they go "Yup, looks like you," you sign the doc in their presence, and they apply their stamp.

Yeah, but even notary seals are forged with alarming frequency. They are usually just a stamp after all.

But, at some point, what do you do to absolutely 100% guarantee your bonafides to a complete stranger located across the country? The answer is you probably can't so you put a system in place that protects against all but the most serious and determined attacker who is willing to spend significant effort and money to impersonate you.

It's true that you can physically go to the institution in question and prove your bonafides to them so no intermediate is involved but you start to add a lot of friction to all but the most serious transactions.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#73

Post by noodlesUK »

ljm wrote: post #71
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It must be the full document plaintext and date signed with your private key and should be verifiable with your public key by a court before a claim is even approachable. This is called a notary public. Its a routine requirement with immigration documents. .They can also certify copies as true. In UK for sone reason it costs over £100, and noone uses them, but in eastern europe its common and notarising documents i…

Can’t speak for every country in Europe but once you get a national ID or residence permit in some of them then the card will contain a chip with a certificate that can be used for public key crypto. If you need to sign something then you sign it with your ID. Same ID can get you into your accounts online. No different to Estonia’s digital ID scheme a decade ago.

The UK and Ireland are uniquely countries in Europe that don’t have any form of national ID card. The UK was going to get (continental) EU style ID cards in 2008-2010 but this proved to be rather controversial at the time due to perceptions of government overreach and dragnet biometrics. Instead of just doing a simple ID card with just facial biometrics (like a passport), the whole project was scrapped. I don’t know why Ireland doesn’t have them but they have derogations from all the EU laws about it, though their passport card is essentially an EU ID card complete with chip.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#74

Post by indymike »

bdjeudug wrote: post #8
baz00 wrote: post #2

Someone did this recently to me i.e. showed me something I'd signed which I didn't. Fortunately this lead to their demise as I am friends with their manager which was unknown by the party in question. Historically I tend to try something on with employment contracts too - I return an unsigned copy to the company. Only 1 out of 6 companies I worked for didn't just stick it in a filing cabinet and forget about it. Ulti…

You’re intentionally returning unsigned contacts to employers hoping they don’t notice? Seeing how you’re first action in each of your new jobs is done in bad faith I think I see why you’ve had to fill out six of them…

> Seeing how you’re first action in each of your new jobs is done in bad faith

This behavior is not bad faith, unless it is done with the intent to deceive the employer. It's on the employer to make sure documentation is done correctly. In my company, we catch these kinds of things when we are setting up payroll. Most of the time the employee genuinely forgot to sign, or read some creative advice on the internet. Most of the time, the employee signs, and life is good. When they don't sign, we often find that that person has accepted an offer elsewhere and is milking us for a check.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#75

Post by Enginerrrd »

frankus wrote: post #67
DarkmSparks wrote: post #58

Putting aside any ethics questions. Sounds like the guys on their way to court did actually sign the contracts. Not sure there is much get out clause for them tbh, Im not aware of any court anywhere that will take "didnt read the contract" as a get out of jail free card. Always read the contract kids.

We need “anything sketchy about this 20-page contract” as a service (for something less than the cost of retaining a lawyer).

Honestly, it probably needs to be roped into something like the certificate authority system. Like, if you have a deceptive licensing agreement, the certificate is revoked. And similarly, being asked to sign something that isn't tied to a certificate would be a huge red flag.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#76

Post by wincy »

baz00 wrote: post #2

Someone did this recently to me i.e. showed me something I'd signed which I didn't. Fortunately this lead to their demise as I am friends with their manager which was unknown by the party in question. Historically I tend to try something on with employment contracts too - I return an unsigned copy to the company. Only 1 out of 6 companies I worked for didn't just stick it in a filing cabinet and forget about it. Ulti…

I don’t think that’s an appropriate use of the word demise unless your manager friend killed the person in question. Which scummy move, for sure but I hope it didn’t actually lead to their demise.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#77

Post by xvilka »

Mandatum wrote: post #9
jacquesm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone forged my signature on docusign on a pretty official document and I raked them over the coals for it. Highly annoying these services, they don't do even the most basic verification that the person signing really is the person that should be signing.

They do. You just won’t pay for it. When you sign a mortgage or take out a loan and it’s all online, lenders will pay someone to come to your house, take a photo of you, verify it, and then video tape you signing. It’s just not convenient.

In the age of "deep fakes" recording the video of someone signing might not be enough.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#78

Post by thfuran »

peteradio wrote: post #33
jacquesm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously suggesting that virologists would 'take revenge' on others by using their professional skills or do I read your comment in entirely the wrong way?

Isn't this the normal thing to do? As a physicist I might set up a large pendulum to knock over a foe or perhaps a frictionfull ramp with a uniform cylinder to flatten my foe.

I have done in no fewer than three enemies by forcing them into infinite loops.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#79

Post by Roark66 »

Jnr wrote: post #46
casmike wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some countries have electronic signatures linked to biometric IDs. Various devices can then be used to verify the signer's natural identity when signing documents online, like a mobile phone (both smart and dumb). I lived in a country like this and all my electronic signatures were linked to my natural person. Most documents were signed this way - from rental agreements to tax returns. It was very uncanny to start us…

Whole EU and EEZ has standard approved verified electornic signature format. So in EU even cross country signing is possible.

Indeed, it is a pretty cool system, but every time I look into it I'm puzzled by the variety of costs for essentially the same thing. You can buy a cheapest personal certificate that is recognised as equivalent to a physical signature for contract signing for 50eur for 1 year. Or you can spend 500EUR for the same thing. Some come with a smart card, some don't. For some you get software that works offline, for some you can use open source signing software, for others you get nothing and you need to sign the documents via "their website". Some boast "notary approved" which means nothing. For things that require a notary like real estate transactions you still need a notary. My bank even sells "single use" certificates, good for 15 minutes for 5eur.

It's a nice convenience, but some of the costs are insane.

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