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Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

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Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#21

Post by casmike »

baz00 wrote: post #2

Someone did this recently to me i.e. showed me something I'd signed which I didn't. Fortunately this lead to their demise as I am friends with their manager which was unknown by the party in question. Historically I tend to try something on with employment contracts too - I return an unsigned copy to the company. Only 1 out of 6 companies I worked for didn't just stick it in a filing cabinet and forget about it. Ulti…

Some countries have electronic signatures linked to biometric IDs. Various devices can then be used to verify the signer's natural identity when signing documents online, like a mobile phone (both smart and dumb).

I lived in a country like this and all my electronic signatures were linked to my natural person. Most documents were signed this way - from rental agreements to tax returns. It was very uncanny to start using things like Adobe Sign or DocuSign afterwards which is very popular in the UK and US.

For the curious - look up m-signature and e-signature in Lithuania.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#22

Post by asnyder »

keltex wrote: post #19

Reminds me of a SPAM email we get quite frequently, the "World Company Register". The attached PDF reads, "To update your company profile, please print, complete and return this form. Updating is free of charge. Only sign if you want to place an insertion." Then at the bottom in tiny type it says that you've agreed to a 3 year insertion at 995 Euro per year. I can see small businesses easily falling for this.

Still surprises me that tactics like these are legal. There shouldn't be a concept of fine print... The whole notion is ripe for abuse.

Same with elder scams. Too many potential avenues for scams via contracts.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#23

Post by ghaff »

bombcar wrote: post #7
baz00 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this is the point about docusign being half assed. It doesn't do any identity validation really. It should verify the signer and the signee are the parties in question using identity services. It doesn't. I believe it can but it doesn't usually get used.

A signed document that isn't notarized is just a formality, in my opinion. If you care enough to get it really signed, pay the notary.

Most people's signature these days isn't much more an attestation than putting on an X on the line or checking a box that "I agree." Docusign just makes the process a bit more formal.

To the degree that signing a lot of documents is something of a formality, most of us don't want to have to go to a notary every time we need to put our signature on something.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#24

Post by rajamaka »

bdjeudug wrote: post #8
baz00 wrote: post #2

Someone did this recently to me i.e. showed me something I'd signed which I didn't. Fortunately this lead to their demise as I am friends with their manager which was unknown by the party in question. Historically I tend to try something on with employment contracts too - I return an unsigned copy to the company. Only 1 out of 6 companies I worked for didn't just stick it in a filing cabinet and forget about it. Ulti…

You’re intentionally returning unsigned contacts to employers hoping they don’t notice? Seeing how you’re first action in each of your new jobs is done in bad faith I think I see why you’ve had to fill out six of them…

Is it rare to have 6 jobs in a career? I have had 3 in the last 5 years alone.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#25

Post by ghaff »

jacquesm wrote: post #3
baz00 wrote: post #2

Someone did this recently to me i.e. showed me something I'd signed which I didn't. Fortunately this lead to their demise as I am friends with their manager which was unknown by the party in question. Historically I tend to try something on with employment contracts too - I return an unsigned copy to the company. Only 1 out of 6 companies I worked for didn't just stick it in a filing cabinet and forget about it. Ulti…

Someone forged my signature on docusign on a pretty official document and I raked them over the coals for it. Highly annoying these services, they don't do even the most basic verification that the person signing really is the person that should be signing.

I'm pretty sure just about anytime I've had a Docusign link, it's been from someone I already had a relationship with and it's been the pro-forma equivalent of printing out a document, signing it (scribbling a couple lines)/initialing it, scanning it, and sending it back. (ADDED: Except that unencrypted PDFs aren't being emailed around.)

In neither case is there any real additional identity verification.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#26

Post by mikepurvis »

Mandatum wrote: post #9
jacquesm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone forged my signature on docusign on a pretty official document and I raked them over the coals for it. Highly annoying these services, they don't do even the most basic verification that the person signing really is the person that should be signing.

They do. You just won’t pay for it. When you sign a mortgage or take out a loan and it’s all online, lenders will pay someone to come to your house, take a photo of you, verify it, and then video tape you signing. It’s just not convenient.

I signed my mortgage on DocuSign, over a zoom call.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#27

Post by nkozyra »

johnbellone wrote: post #12

The answer is if it isn’t notarized I didn’t sign it. Go away. And then I submit a copy of one the judge signed as evidence.

That's a nice answer but I don't think that prevents you from spending money on arbitration or their getting a default judgement against you.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#28

Post by Filligree »

rajamaka wrote: post #24
bdjeudug wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re intentionally returning unsigned contacts to employers hoping they don’t notice? Seeing how you’re first action in each of your new jobs is done in bad faith I think I see why you’ve had to fill out six of them…

Is it rare to have 6 jobs in a career? I have had 3 in the last 5 years alone.

I would normally assume a year before a new employee is a net benefit; the first six months is mostly training. Someone who sticks around for less than two, we’d have been better off not hiring.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#29

Post by amelius »

asnyder wrote: post #22
keltex wrote: post #19

Reminds me of a SPAM email we get quite frequently, the "World Company Register". The attached PDF reads, "To update your company profile, please print, complete and return this form. Updating is free of charge. Only sign if you want to place an insertion." Then at the bottom in tiny type it says that you've agreed to a 3 year insertion at 995 Euro per year. I can see small businesses easily falling for this.

Still surprises me that tactics like these are legal. There shouldn't be a concept of fine print... The whole notion is ripe for abuse. Same with elder scams. Too many potential avenues for scams via contracts.

This is where dot-matrix printers shine: they destroy the fine print.

Re: Scientists hit with massive bills after speaking at COVID-19 ‘webinars’

#30

Post by Closi »

jacquesm wrote: post #15
8organicbits wrote: post #10

> until recently the online tool who.is indicated that the [Polish arbitration court, Pan-Europejski-Sąd-Arbitrażowy] PESA website was set up by Villa Europa itself in September 2021 Quite alarming. Is it normal to charge speakers such high fees? I remember some conferences giving free admission to speakers as encouragement.

No, it's normal to pay speakers or to at least accommodate their expenses. This was just a scam.

I don’t think this is quite right with all conferences - I’ve personally found it quite common for these event companies to give talks to “platinum” sponsors as an indirect way of charging for them.

(Although this particular instance sounds like a scam)

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