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Time to bring back asylums?

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Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#151

Post by [deleted] »

wolverine876 wrote: post #59
uejfiweun wrote: post #24

Clearly HN does not seem to like this idea so much. But I do have to ask, what exactly do you propose as a solution to the massive, growing hordes of drug addicted zombies in west coast cities? You can't tell me that this problem doesn't exist, anyone who's been to a west coast city knows it's very real. The past 20 years of the "compassion" approach or whatever is clearly a total disaster. At what point do we just s…

What I read from that post is that you are outraged, or acting outraged, and want to abuse other people as a result. It's hard to find any specific argument in the comment otherwise. > The past 20 years of the "compassion" approach According to research, the problem is rising housing prices, not compassion. Human rights are also not compassion. It's sick how trendy it is to disdain compassion, human rights, and any o…

[deleted]

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#152

Post by janalsncm »

8jef wrote: post #144
amadeuspagel wrote: post #11

Asylums still exist. What this person wants to bring back is the ability to lock people up and keep people locked up there with little recourse. A typical case from this time[1]: > [Cramer] frankly discusses the “regimented, often hopeless conditions of state mental hospitals”, talks about a hospital in Alabama where “care was worse than simply inadequate: one psychiatrist for 5000 patients; astonishingly low funding…

> Asylums still exist. What this person wants to bring back is the ability to lock people up and keep people locked up there with little recourse. Places that lock up people against their will with little recourse are called prisons these days. To be fair, prisons always existed, it's just that now, the're primarily used for putting away folks suffering from mental illnesses and dependency to substances.

When my grandma had Alzheimer’s we put her in a nursing home and took away her legal ability to leave. And what is Alzheimer’s but a really bad, invariably terminal mental illness?

To call a mental hospital a “prison” is to rhetorically group it with an extremely violent, cold, and otherwise unpleasant institution. But a mental hospital doesn’t have to be.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#153

Post by [deleted] »

wolverine876 wrote: post #59
uejfiweun wrote: post #24

Clearly HN does not seem to like this idea so much. But I do have to ask, what exactly do you propose as a solution to the massive, growing hordes of drug addicted zombies in west coast cities? You can't tell me that this problem doesn't exist, anyone who's been to a west coast city knows it's very real. The past 20 years of the "compassion" approach or whatever is clearly a total disaster. At what point do we just s…

What I read from that post is that you are outraged, or acting outraged, and want to abuse other people as a result. It's hard to find any specific argument in the comment otherwise. > The past 20 years of the "compassion" approach According to research, the problem is rising housing prices, not compassion. Human rights are also not compassion. It's sick how trendy it is to disdain compassion, human rights, and any o…

[deleted]

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#154

Post by nemo44x »

wtetzner wrote: post #68
warning26 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What this person wants to bring back is the ability to lock people up and keep people locked up there with little recourse. Yes. This is what we need; the fact is, many mentally ill individuals need help, but are not capable of realizing that they need help, and will refuse any attempt to offer it. Without the power to detain such an individual against their will, that person will remain on the streets, which is a…

The biggest problem is who gets to decide which individuals "need" help.

That is extremely difficult and dangerous. For instance, someone who doesn’t go along with whatever the latest dogma is could be sent away by whom ever is in power. When does it go from mental help to reprogramming?

Saying that I agree we need to bring back a new version of asylums. I’d hope there’s a bipartisan project there.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#155

Post by bitwize »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #11

Asylums still exist. What this person wants to bring back is the ability to lock people up and keep people locked up there with little recourse. A typical case from this time[1]: > [Cramer] frankly discusses the “regimented, often hopeless conditions of state mental hospitals”, talks about a hospital in Alabama where “care was worse than simply inadequate: one psychiatrist for 5000 patients; astonishingly low funding…

This sounds like that movie I Care a Lot, which is about a woman who runs a scam getting old folks locked away in care homes while acquiring power of attorney and cleaning out their assets.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#156

Post by harimau777 »

iancmceachern wrote: post #145
bill_joy_fanboy wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you come up with the numbers 90% and 10%? Did you just make them up?

Yes. The point being that asylums had some aspects that we should improve, but it's pretty much unanimously agreed that they were better than what we're doing now

It's not anything close to unanimously agreed upon that they are better than what we're doing now. We have entire advocacy organizations who are opposed to incarcerating the mentally ill.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#157

Post by iancmceachern »

orwin wrote: post #42
iancmceachern wrote: post #38

I've had this conversation with many friends. Totally agree. They need to be good, well run with compassion and care of course. But we indeed need them.

But they already exist, no?

They've been systematically dismantled over the last 70 years. Not much remains.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalization_in_th...

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#158

Post by bitwize »

janalsncm wrote: post #152
8jef wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Asylums still exist. What this person wants to bring back is the ability to lock people up and keep people locked up there with little recourse. Places that lock up people against their will with little recourse are called prisons these days. To be fair, prisons always existed, it's just that now, the're primarily used for putting away folks suffering from mental illnesses and dependency to substances.

When my grandma had Alzheimer’s we put her in a nursing home and took away her legal ability to leave. And what is Alzheimer’s but a really bad, invariably terminal mental illness? To call a mental hospital a “prison” is to rhetorically group it with an extremely violent, cold, and otherwise unpleasant institution. But a mental hospital doesn’t have to be.

And prisons don't have to be. Think of the resorts rich white collar criminals get put away in.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#159

Post by [deleted] »

imgabe wrote: post #96
EatingWithForks wrote: post #89

For anyone who wants to bring back asylums: first and foremost, you must imagine that you will be subjected to asylums as they existed. You could simply be protesting while black or female, considered insane for protesting and forcibly detained-- for which you can be raped and assaulted, and any reporting to the police of your trauma isn't taken seriously because you're considered insane. It's nonsensical to say we s…

> you must imagine that you will be subjected to asylums as they existed. No you don't. Nobody is advocating for that. Nobody is saying we should follow the same broken standards that led to locking up people for protesting, or that we should allow abuse and rape. Do you not think there is any middle ground between raping protestors and letting people with violent schizophrenia live in a tent on the street?

[deleted]

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#160

Post by harimau777 »

imgabe wrote: post #96
EatingWithForks wrote: post #89

For anyone who wants to bring back asylums: first and foremost, you must imagine that you will be subjected to asylums as they existed. You could simply be protesting while black or female, considered insane for protesting and forcibly detained-- for which you can be raped and assaulted, and any reporting to the police of your trauma isn't taken seriously because you're considered insane. It's nonsensical to say we s…

> you must imagine that you will be subjected to asylums as they existed. No you don't. Nobody is advocating for that. Nobody is saying we should follow the same broken standards that led to locking up people for protesting, or that we should allow abuse and rape. Do you not think there is any middle ground between raping protestors and letting people with violent schizophrenia live in a tent on the street?

What sort of protections do you advocate putting in place to prevent that?
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