Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#71

Post by elteto » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 1:40 PM UTC

vunderba wrote: post #29

mcpackieh wrote: post #9

Does anybody know if this book (or the movie) covers Oppenheimers attempt to murder his teacher with a cyanide laced apple? I don't care to invest time in a biography that whitewashes the man.

From the Science History Institute: "Fergusson was right to worry. Like all Cambridge students, Oppenheimer had an official tutor. This was an older graduate student who acted like a mentor. His tutor’s name was Patrick Blackett. Blackett was robust, popular, and good with his hands—everything Oppenheimer wasn’t. Oppenheimer developed a seething hatred for him. Things came to a head in 1926 when Oppenheimer put a poi…

He wasn’t a psychopath, he was going through a complete mental breakdown during that year, and the actual details of what happened are murky. Some say he definitely put the apple there, others doubt it as he was known to exaggerate and make up stories. Cambridge got wind of the _accusation_ and then threatened to press charges but his father intervened.

The whole thing is a sad episode in his life, but no need to accuse him of being a psychopath. No psychopath would have changed his mind regarding nuclear proliferation like he did in his later life.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#72

Post by mcpackieh » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 2:32 PM UTC

hgsgm wrote: post #43

mcpackieh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> childhoods 20 year olds shouldn't be considered culpable for attempted murder now? Madness. This is an important biographical detail not only because attempted murder is always relevant, but also because it is relevant to his involvement in an idea to poison Germany's food supply with radioactive strontium. Edit for correction: it happened in 1926, he was 22 years old.

There's no proof that there was an attempted murder, just hearsay that Oppenheimer said he put noxious chemicals in his tutor's apple.

He confessed to his friends who turned him in. Technically that's hearsay but it's pretty damn convincing.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#73

Post by ttyprintk » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 3:07 PM UTC

AI52487963 wrote: post #60

Reading that book inspired me to watch the documentary Trinity and Beyond( https://youtu.be/p4yXfrYSmuA ) a fascinating Shatner-narrated dive into the cold war era of nuclear testing and proliferation. Only documentary I've ever bought the soundtrack to.

Video archivist Peter Kuran is the force behind it. Im surprised he’s not mentioned on HN; filming atomic fireballs is quite technical.

His site: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34294804

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#74

Post by glimshe » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

A classic.

Will people 100 years from now be talking about a similar book, but titled "The Making of the Artificial Intelligence"?

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#75

Post by rurban » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 4:56 PM UTC

opwieurposiu wrote: post #5

The thing that struck me from this book (or maybe it was in "Dark Sun") was how much the soviets were spying. We were giving them detailed plans for chemical factories, tire factories, engines, alloys, anything you can think of. They did not trust us so they would spy on all this stuff anyway. They would fill up a C-47 Skytrains(lend-lease) with stolen documents and fly them out to Moscow through Alaska. I have to gi…

More like all that Uranium in the Czech and East German mines. The US thought that buying off the Uranium from East-Congo in Belgium protected them, but it only protected them from the Heisenberg bomb.

The bomb itself is trivial once you have enough uranium or plutonium.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#76

Post by rurban » Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 4:59 PM UTC

mcpackieh wrote: post #9

Does anybody know if this book (or the movie) covers Oppenheimers attempt to murder his teacher with a cyanide laced apple? I don't care to invest time in a biography that whitewashes the man.

It's in the movie, but heavily simplified, and dramatized. As most of his lifetime hotspots. Such as his affairs.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#77

Post by justrealist » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 12:35 AM UTC

zirgs wrote: post #68

justrealist wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that easy to explain. Putin could declare victory (Ukraine is demilitarized) and withdraw today, and most Russians would believe it (or at least, not care about the truth). The worse but more explicable answer is that it's stubbornness and pride on Putin's part in his national aspirations for Russia, for his external image, not his internal one.

If he withdraws from Crimea - he's dead. Everybody will see that as a miserable defeat.

He doesn't have to. It's not seriously in play.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#78

Post by nardis_miles » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 5:21 PM UTC

RachelF wrote: post #37

philipkglass wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rhodes' The Making of the Atomic Bomb is deservedly regarded as a classic, but Dark Sun doesn't live up to the same standard [1]. For people interested in the technical history of the H-bomb, Anne Fitzpatrick's PhD thesis Igniting the Light Elements: The Los Alamos Thermonuclear Weapon Project, 1942-1952 is as good a single-document source as I've ever read: https://www.osti.gov/biblio/10596 [1] Some reasons for the…

I agree, Dark Sun and Rhodes' other recent books are OK, but Dark Sun is not a good read. It's almost as if he had some notes left over and turned them into a book in a hurry.

Dark Sun is not written as well, but it is really illuminating. The discussion of the Russian bomb efforts is fascinating and important. Also, Teller's role was told very honestly. I was told by colleagues at Los Alamos that when Teller would visit, some people wouldn't even shake his hand.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#79

Post by CatWChainsaw » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 10:47 PM UTC

glimshe wrote: post #74

A classic. Will people 100 years from now be talking about a similar book, but titled "The Making of the Artificial Intelligence"?

We'll be lucky to make it that far.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#80

Post by sudosysgen » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 11:11 PM UTC

localplume wrote: post #64

0xDEF wrote: post #53

Both Oppenheimer and Teller made numerous visits to Israel. Oppenheimer admitted he helped them make fast breeder reactors to produce plutonium for fission bombs and Teller admitted he helped them make fusion/hydrogen bombs. Why is this information not included in modern coverage of Oppenheimer and Teller? Why were they given a slap on the wrist when other "Atomic spies" were fried in the electric chair for sharing n…

I imagine they made numerous visits to Israel because they were Jewish, just as Einstein did. Although Oppenheimer is said to have been ashamed of his Jewishness and tried to hide it, he still was a supporter of Israel and of course this meant helping their nuclear program. He met with Weizmann in 47 and Ben-Gurion in 52, literally just after the holocaust. He helped Israel as he was concerned about Egyptian-Russian…

Helping the nuclear program of the country you identify as your home country using secrets from the one you came from is normally called treason and espionage. The rest is the motivation, it doesn't change what it is.