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Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

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Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#271

Post by philipkglass »

Joeri wrote: post #229
usednet wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logical conclusion that people don’t like to hear is that there will need to be a fundamental restructuring of the economy. AI will, in the not so distant future, eliminate the vast majority of jobs. The choice will then be between a socialized economy or barbarism.

Just because we can’t imagine the jobs that would exist in an AI future doesn’t mean they won’t be there. And there are many ways this thing plays out where we don’t get a world of cheap AI abundance where the AI provides without limit. If nothing else the copyright maffia will do its best to prevent that future from occurring.

The intellectual property lobby doesn't have much sway outside of countries with significant cultural exports, software businesses, and/or patent-protected manufacturing. That's basically the Anglosphere, richer parts of Europe, South Korea, and Japan. If countries outside this group can grow prosperous faster by pirating intellectual property than by continuing to play by WTO rules, they will.

If the only thing standing between poor countries and a world of cheap AI abundance is law, respect for those laws won't last. Why should e.g. India play by the normal rules of trade if foreign companies have developed do-everything robots that they want to license on a restrictive basis? India can obtain a few do-everything robots by means of normal trade, jailbreak or reverse engineer them, then duplicate do-everything robots domestically while ignoring the impotent griping of the original company and its government. There's no big IP lobby inside of India itself and it's really hard to see what "carrot" other countries could offer for compliance that tops the prize of having unlimited do-everything robots.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#272

Post by ojbyrne »

bushbaba wrote: post #234
usednet wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logical conclusion that people don’t like to hear is that there will need to be a fundamental restructuring of the economy. AI will, in the not so distant future, eliminate the vast majority of jobs. The choice will then be between a socialized economy or barbarism.

Totally disagree. You could have said the same of Industrial Revolution. Yet here we are living better lives from the technological breakthroughs. AI will just usher the next industrial revolution of the modern era.

I am reminded of an argument from [1] that the Industrial Revolution completely wiped out a class of workers - but they were horses - and that class of workers largely became cannon fodder in WW1. So it seems reasonable to speculate that the same fate could await some amount of human workers.

1. https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0691121354/

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#273

Post by data-ottawa »

emporas wrote: post #190
indy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, almost everyone who reads Hacker News have built their careers on technological progress. Outrage now that it's coming after their jobs just rings hollow.

New jobs are possible however. Given the state of A.I. even today, which is not that advanced, we need one terabyte per day or per week for training purposes. Someone has to produce that data and combine human made data with machine generated data. Synthetic data like that will be fed into ML algorithms. That simple process, in my calculations, will be the biggest industry on the planet by 2030. The data has to grow…

Does that mean jobs or filling a captcha to get a food stamp?

I don’t see how that provides any employment.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#274

Post by labster »

usednet wrote: post #174
jarjoura wrote: post #134

If the promise of AI means I can do 1/2 the amount of work and maintain my high quality life, then I'm all for it. However, every advancement that has come in the last 100 years that improved efficiency has only meant we're pushed to work more and do more. So I am now expected to do 2x the work. If you're really dreaming for AI that can wipe-out entire classes of decent middle-class jobs in one big swing, don't forge…

The logical conclusion that people don’t like to hear is that there will need to be a fundamental restructuring of the economy. AI will, in the not so distant future, eliminate the vast majority of jobs. The choice will then be between a socialized economy or barbarism.

I’ll bet one hundred dollars on barbarism. Seems like a sure thing.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#275

Post by jacquesm »

didibus wrote: post #168
digdugdirk wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mean quality of life is irrelevant if the mode quality of life is only a tenth of that.

And honestly the range matters a lot here as well. The mean just isn't a useful metric for human emancipation.

> The mean just isn't a useful metric for human emancipation.

For those at the top of the foodchain it is a very useful metric: it allows them to sleep at night.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#276

Post by nverno »

vikinghckr wrote: post #265
nverno wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conveniences don't make life worth living, and a long life doesn't mean a good life. Do you really think people, on average, enjoyed their lives less back then? I don't

Well, enjoyment or happiness is tricky to measure because happiness = reality - expectation. So people in the 1820s might've been "happy" enough because they simply didn't know a better life like today's was a possibility. There's no reason to think they were happier than today's population though. And certainly, you as someone who experienced today's conveniences will not be happy long term if all those were taken a…

I've spent the best years of my life living in the woods and in wall-less huts w/ no water, plumbing or electricity. Imho our modern conveniences don't make life any richer, and in many cases take away the pleasure of things we take for granted. If I had medical problems I would probably feel differently.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#277

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #213
RugnirViking wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in theory: customer support automation frees up support workers from focusing on repetetive customer issues to being able to devote more time to those difficult issues, providing better service at lower cost in practise: have you ever used any automated customer support for anything? it speaks for itself - it's literally worse than nothing.

in practise: have you ever used any automated customer support for anything? I've used it to cancel orders, cancel subscriptions, change a broadband package, arrange a return/refund for faulty goods. Do you prefer to talk to a human for things like this?

No I prefer to use a normal user interface.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#278

Post by vikinghckr »

vbezhenar wrote: post #245
yreg wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mean quality of life is sky high compared to 100 years ago and it is such thanks to the advancement made.

What about quality of life compared to 50 years ago? I guess it depends on country but I feel like my parents generation lived better life compared to mine.

What did they have you don't?

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#279

Post by tmpz22 »

diatone wrote: post #252
bushbaba wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally disagree. You could have said the same of Industrial Revolution. Yet here we are living better lives from the technological breakthroughs. AI will just usher the next industrial revolution of the modern era.

Worth pointing out, we live better lives not just from the technological breakthroughs, but also from the social movements that have brought us things like the 40-hour work week and keeping children from labour for a reasonable time. Which were direct responses to the Industrial Revolution.

And we're starting to see the repeal of Labor laws in the US - newly passed or pending laws allow companies to hire children without work permits and allow children to work longer hours under more dangerous conditions in places like construction sites, meat packing plants, and automobile factories.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/2023/04/27/1172544561/new-state-laws-are...

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#280

Post by jacquesm »

gnufied wrote: post #27
ghaff wrote: post #2

There's been a pretty steady trend towards automation, chatbots, self-service, etc. replacing getting an empowered human on the line. Given labor costs and labor shortages, expect even more. Had an airline thing that the website (and app) wouldn't let me complete online. Spent ages on hold but then was able to get hold of their premium account number and was fixed right away. (Of course, would actually have preferred…

Same goes for almost all grocery shops here - Publix, Kroger, target etc replacing checkout with self-checkout kiosks completely. I absolute hate using self-checkout for non-packaged groceries items. Especially if I have lots of stuff. Freaking "unintended item in baggage area". Not to mention, I feel like Publix etc in particular employed lots of folks with disability. It warmed my heart to talk to them. I don't kno…

I boycott the self checkout, and always go through the cashier, even if that means waiting a bit longer. The way I look at it that's at least a token towards keeping people employed that make substantially less money than I do and even if my time is valuable it isn't nearly as valuable to me as their employment is to them.

I hoped more people would join me this but it looks like it is a losing battle.

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