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Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

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Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#41

Post by RugnirViking »

cm2012 wrote: post #35

This is good for society just like any productivity enhancing invention. You'd think a place like HN would know that the only way the world has ever gotten better has been innovation improving per-human output.

in theory: customer support automation frees up support workers from focusing on repetetive customer issues to being able to devote more time to those difficult issues, providing better service at lower cost

in practise: have you ever used any automated customer support for anything? it speaks for itself - it's literally worse than nothing.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#42

Post by cjs_ac »

stopshills wrote: post #25
dmvdoug wrote: post #7

The enshittification will continue until morale improves.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Morale is down because of the enshittification.

It's a riff on the old joke, 'the beatings will continue until morale improves.' It suggests that the problems are caused by poor management practices and has no deeper meaning.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#43

Post by vwcx »

carapace wrote: post #20
ghaff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're wealthy enough to delegate it to an assistant, I'm sure that's really hard for anything that doesn't involve going to a local store or service. (Or, again, personal advisors of various types but again we're talking lots of money involved.) ADDED: And the fact that going through online travel/hotel/airline sites is mostly easier (and cheaper) than dealing with most travel agents used to be. Until somethi…

> that's really hard for anything that doesn't involve going to a local store or service. Is that such a bad thing? FWIW it used to be that you could pick up the phone, dial '0', and talk to an operator , a real human being with significant power over the system they operated. When the phone companies got rid of human operators: that was the beginning of the end of ...something?

> significant power over the system they operated

that's such a great observation. Nowadays, when emailing support for a company like Ryobi or Breville, the human's response (through a Salesforce queue, no doubt) is always so helpless. They literally have no ability (nor knowledge?) to deviate from the corporate prescribed path and actually solve the problem.

Same goes for a large car dealer's service dept. There's just no incentive to take the most direct route to solve the problem, even if it ends up costing the dealership thousands more in the process.

On the flip side, it's really satisfying engaging with the remaining few businesses and small makers who have the power to offer excellent, direct support.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#44

Post by ghaff »

gnufied wrote: post #27
ghaff wrote: post #2

There's been a pretty steady trend towards automation, chatbots, self-service, etc. replacing getting an empowered human on the line. Given labor costs and labor shortages, expect even more. Had an airline thing that the website (and app) wouldn't let me complete online. Spent ages on hold but then was able to get hold of their premium account number and was fixed right away. (Of course, would actually have preferred…

Same goes for almost all grocery shops here - Publix, Kroger, target etc replacing checkout with self-checkout kiosks completely. I absolute hate using self-checkout for non-packaged groceries items. Especially if I have lots of stuff. Freaking "unintended item in baggage area". Not to mention, I feel like Publix etc in particular employed lots of folks with disability. It warmed my heart to talk to them. I don't kno…

Grocery stores and others absolutely still need cashier checkout. If I have a handful of items I can barcode swipe and even a couple pieces of produce that's fine. But they simply aren't designed for a full shopping cart which includes a ton of non-barcoded items.

Ditto with home repair stores. Scan a new smoke detector? Sure. Check out a bunch of lumber etc. That would be no.

In my experience, most stores are finding a reasonable balance. And one of my cheaper grocery stores doesn't use self-checkout at all for now. Which is just fine.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#46

Post by littlestymaar »

stopshills wrote: post #25
dmvdoug wrote: post #7

The enshittification will continue until morale improves.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Morale is down because of the enshittification.

“[some harmful shit] will continue until morale improves” is a meme.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#47

Post by Ukv »

atmosx wrote: post #10
muskmusk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Have you ever sat in a customer service chat with someone who wasn't very helpful and very slow sat the same time? There were probably handling several other chats at the same time. Why shouldn't we replace those interactions with an AI that is fast and infinitely patient and friendly? I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but I don't see how fighting technological progress that is net positive for almost ever…

Because up to this point my experience with automated systems in banks, phone companies and web services companies has been awful even for trivial requests. Until shit improves, I will be bashing on those and prefer companies that allow me to get human interaction asap.

I feel we are legitimately getting to the point where SoTA language models could be as/more helpful than the "tired human juggling many different customers" baseline, if the implementation is done well.

Would definitely depend what you're phoning in for, though. Going through some common process, digging up information, or needing a special exception to be made?

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#48

Post by gremlinsinc »

stopshills wrote: post #25
dmvdoug wrote: post #7

The enshittification will continue until morale improves.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Morale is down because of the enshittification.

it's A play on beatings will continue until morale improves. I'm pretty sure nobody likes beatings either.

Re: Shopify employee breaks NDA to reveal firm replacing laid off workers with AI

#49

Post by ghaff »

vwcx wrote: post #43
carapace wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's really hard for anything that doesn't involve going to a local store or service. Is that such a bad thing? FWIW it used to be that you could pick up the phone, dial '0', and talk to an operator , a real human being with significant power over the system they operated. When the phone companies got rid of human operators: that was the beginning of the end of ...something?

> significant power over the system they operated that's such a great observation. Nowadays, when emailing support for a company like Ryobi or Breville, the human's response (through a Salesforce queue, no doubt) is always so helpless. They literally have no ability (nor knowledge?) to deviate from the corporate prescribed path and actually solve the problem. Same goes for a large car dealer's service dept. There's j…

If they can give you the service you need and you can afford them, go for it.
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