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Time to bring back asylums?

wsj.com

11–20 of 397 posts

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#11
Asylums still exist. What this person wants to bring back is the ability to lock people up and keep people locked up there with little recourse. A typical case from this time[1]:

> [Cramer] frankly discusses the “regimented, often hopeless conditions of state mental hospitals”, talks about a hospital in Alabama where “care was worse than simply inadequate: one psychiatrist for 5000 patients; astonishingly low funding for clothing, food and upkeep of the buildings”, studies showing that institutions never actually got patients’ signatures on the forms that were supposed to waive their rights to court hearings.

> [He] describes the case of Edna Long, who was hospitalized for “public drunkenness” and “permanently hospitalized in 1952. As Ennis tells the tale, Long received no treatment during the next fifteen years, but was kept busy working at menial jobs in the hospital. After the death of her husband in 1960, the state hospital had her declared incompetent, and seized her assets to pay for her care. Then, they put what assets remained under the management of an attorney, who made a bit of money from reducing the value of her estate by 86% (according to Ennis, a common practice at the time in New York). Once Long had become too physically ill to continue working, the hospital suddenly found her “competent to manage her own affairs” and released her, to a life of elderly poverty. Most of the money that she and her husband had accumulated had been consumed by attorneys supposedly protecting her assets.”

[1]: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-san-fransi...

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#12

> These days, the idea of compelled vaccination is pretty controversial, so the idea that we are going to take away peoples' liberty and force them to take psychotropic drugs after we've imprisoned them seems beyond belief. This is already happening. Compelled vaccination is completely different than a mentally disturbed member of our society roaming the streets unhinged. I have been party to several title 36[1] case…

Compelled vaccination — forcing people to endure the pain of a needle and a few hours of feeling sore in their arm — is indeed completely different from locking people up in mental institutions for decades.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#13

I wonder how much of an increase in taxes the folks at the WSJ would be willing to pay to bring back asylums? The longer I live, the more the quote "the past is a foreign country: they do things differently there" comes to mind. I don't really understand what the asylums were like, but I see that old America that they resided in as a very different place that believed more in public investment. These days, the idea o…

This old america did not believe in public investment enough to ensure humane conditions in asylums.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#15
post #9
post #8

A person does not belong to society or to the government. Sane or not, a person who chooses to not get mental, physical or preventive treatment (like vaccines) or other social manadates should not be compelled because humans lack the authority to do so. What should happen is they should be expelled from society. Expulsion was very common in historical societies. The famous version of this is leper colonies. The land…

There isn't much difference between expulsion and putting them in an asylum, no?

There is, more space and freedom to do whatever they want there.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write more on this topic.

There is no shortage of writing on this. The Supreme Court decisions of the early 1970s on mental health were well-intentioned but disastrous.

I am very curious to hear the personal experiences of a frontline firefighter/EMT in Phoenix

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#17
post #9
post #8

A person does not belong to society or to the government. Sane or not, a person who chooses to not get mental, physical or preventive treatment (like vaccines) or other social manadates should not be compelled because humans lack the authority to do so. What should happen is they should be expelled from society. Expulsion was very common in historical societies. The famous version of this is leper colonies. The land…

There isn't much difference between expulsion and putting them in an asylum, no?

There is from a sociological perspective. It's the difference between therapy and nihilation[1].

The section on therapy and nihilation comprises just a few paragraphs, but the general gist is this. Therapy prevents immigrations from reality and nihilation prevents contamination of reality. They are, of course, both machines of universe maintenance. However just because they share a telos, doesn't mean there isn't much of a difference. There is a vast difference between the experience of being subjected to either therapy or nihilation depending on the social and material particulars of each.

1. Berger, P.L. and Luckmann, T. (1966) The Social Construction of Reality: A Treatise in the Sociology of Knowledge. Doubleday & Company, New York.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#19

> These days, the idea of compelled vaccination is pretty controversial, so the idea that we are going to take away peoples' liberty and force them to take psychotropic drugs after we've imprisoned them seems beyond belief. This is already happening. Compelled vaccination is completely different than a mentally disturbed member of our society roaming the streets unhinged. I have been party to several title 36[1] case…

Compelled vaccination — forcing people to endure the pain of a needle and a few hours of feeling sore in their arm — is indeed completely different from locking people up in mental institutions for decades.

This is a strawman - no one is complaining about the pain of the stab. It’s 100% the juice inside the syringe.

This is the CDC site on the history of vaccine incidents: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history....

Bad things can and do happen and it doesn’t do any good to pretend they don’t.

Of course the reward is far worth the risk with modern science, but some people are still afraid of shit like this.

Re: Time to bring back asylums?

#20
post #14

Uh, what the hell?

This is pretty normal for Wall Street Journal. When they suggest anything that looks like socialized health care, it's gonna be the bizzaro version that does more harm than good to the patients, but gets the homeless off the streets they want to make money on. I haven't bothered to read the article, but there's good money to be made if these institutions are privatized.
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