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TSMC warns over deepening slump in chipmaking sector

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Re: TSMC warns over deepening slump in chipmaking sector

#52

This boom/bust is really obvious with regards to computer prices. I'm seeing 2TB NVMe PCIe 4.0 SSDs with 7000+ MBps under $100 these days. Almost everything in the computer-world is on a significant sale.

I noticed that too. What does it mean? That demand is sinking or that costs are going down?

Re: TSMC warns over deepening slump in chipmaking sector

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used any of these sub $100 devices? I just took a look, and all of the names are vendors I have no experience with what so ever. All of the vendors I am familiar are above that price point. So, my immediate concern would be these cheap ones are made from chips rejected by the name brands, and their performance would be rejected by me after wasting the time/money on them. I was looking at NewEgg and not Aliba…

I have an ADATA 2TB in a PS5 and my work machine. These aren't fly by nights. They can be had for sub $100. Even the much lauded Samsung 980 Pro is dipping close enough to the same.

Assembling a new home PC, picked up a 2tb Samsung 980 Pro with a heatsink recently for $129 (I think it was $113 without the heatsink at that moment).

DDR5 ram is finally starting to get price reasonable as well.

Re: TSMC warns over deepening slump in chipmaking sector

#54
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is why has revenue dropped 10% for TSMC if everything downstream is going gangbusters? Doesn't it point to a drop in demand for chips, and therefore the retail devices they go inside?

If downstream things have gone to shit already, why the prediction that a crisis will be in the _future_? TSMC's revenue grew too much during the pandemic. It's just normal it should contract when things go back to normal.

Potentially this is a tipping point for the things downstream. Honestly I’m just thinking out loud here.

Re: TSMC warns over deepening slump in chipmaking sector

#55

This boom/bust is really obvious with regards to computer prices. I'm seeing 2TB NVMe PCIe 4.0 SSDs with 7000+ MBps under $100 these days. Almost everything in the computer-world is on a significant sale.

Got a link/model number? I’m always down for a new drive.

Re: TSMC warns over deepening slump in chipmaking sector

#56
post #43
post #17

TSMC just warned the world of a 10% decline in chip revenues. Given that chips today are critical component of every phone, TV, laptop, desktop PC, server, vehicle, dishwasher, and pretty much everything else , TSMC's warning suggests we're going to experience a significant global economic contraction soon. Hopefully I'm wrong.

> Given that [...] we're going to experience a significant global economic contraction soon. What's with all the doomslinging in modern discourse? No, no, that's not now it works at all. There was a chip shortage just a year ago! Did that plunge us into recession? No, clearly it didn't. Then it was Inflation that was going to kill us all. And it didn't either. Now all of a sudden we're swinging the other way with chi…

> What's with all the doomslinging in modern discourse?

Because public trust in the ability of governments to manage a crisis has gone completely fucking downhill, worldwide:

- the US couldn't even manage to beat a gang of cave-living Islamist terrorists using kalashnikovs in 20 years, and had to flee the country in shame

- we went through three years of a worldwide pandemic, then panicked governments acted like it was all over due to pressure by the far right - and yet, despite mounting evidence of millions of cases of long covid and almost all nation leaders silently insisting on covid tests prior to meetings, for the citizens it's a free for all for the virus, at the risk of disabled people and other at-risk groups. Governments didn't do anything to meaningfully curb the onslaught of propaganda as well.

- compared to prior environmental threats such as CFC coolants or lead, no one is doing anything meaningful (i.e. something that actually costs Big Money some wealth) against climate change. Instead, again, climate change denial runs rampant.

- we've got Russia invading Ukraine in a land-grab and it took us a year of brutal slaughter, rape and terrorism to send a handful of fucking tanks, and fighter jets are still many months away. I'm not advocating to glass the Kremlin, but NATO could do way way WAY more to stop this shit.

- China has been stealing Western IP for decades and used obvious price dumping to destroy our economies, and yet our politicians and companies keep kneeling before Xi despite the constant Chinese saber rattling against Taiwan

- housing prices and cost of living have been exploding for years and no one cares, despite tent cities of homeless in every major warm US city and people defecating on the streets because they don't have any safe place.

- on top of all of that (literal) shit, Nazis and other authoritarian politicians are back worldwide, to a large degree financed by the Kremlin, and guess what, politicians aren't taking care about that either, instead they let their parties be taken over by them or refuse to fight and go under in elections.

- ETA: And in the US, people will probably have the choice come next election between someone who should have retired from politics decades ago on the Democrat side and on the Republican side either someone who has incited a putsch, stole top-secret documents and hid them in a fucking toilet or someone who thinks it's a good idea to take on Disney of all companies or to fight everyone who doesn't think like him as "woke" and wants to eradicate them. JFC America what are you doing?

So yes, it's completely rational for people to assume doom when politicians don't give us any reason to hope that the situation will improve. It makes more sense to prepare for the worst case because it's increasingly more likely.

Re: TSMC warns over deepening slump in chipmaking sector

#58
post #17

TSMC just warned the world of a 10% decline in chip revenues. Given that chips today are critical component of every phone, TV, laptop, desktop PC, server, vehicle, dishwasher, and pretty much everything else , TSMC's warning suggests we're going to experience a significant global economic contraction soon. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Inventories are stacking up after the COVID supply chain crisis, so automotive and durable goods manufacturers are slowing down on input orders, even though demand for their products remains high. There's definitely a PC/smartphone demand slump (both sectors down around 10% YoY for Q2 2023), so add those two data points and factor in potential supply increases down the road due to CHIPS Act effects, and you're looking at decreased demand and increased price pressures for an uncertain amount of time. Given just how contradictory the broader market data is regarding the "soft landing vs minicession" debate, TSMC's specific revenue issues shouldn't be assumed to be dispositive.

Re: TSMC warns over deepening slump in chipmaking sector

#59
post #52

This boom/bust is really obvious with regards to computer prices. I'm seeing 2TB NVMe PCIe 4.0 SSDs with 7000+ MBps under $100 these days. Almost everything in the computer-world is on a significant sale.

I noticed that too. What does it mean? That demand is sinking or that costs are going down?

Computer parts are always high-margin. They're made out of purified sand after all, the raw materials of chips is excessively cheap.

The ultimate price that consumers pay is very much related to demand and less about costs. The economics of chips is very interesting: its very expensive to design and develop a chip. But making additional copies of chips (or mass producing any design, really) is extremely cheap.

-------------

So yes, computer parts will go up in price mostly in reaction to demand. And they'll go down in price mostly in reaction to demand.

The long-term investment into computers is not guaranteed however. It takes $Billions to design a modern chip, which is the hard part in practice. To run a computer company means to sell enough chips to fund the next generation. But for any given week or day of the year, the price of those chips can be whatever anyone feels like... really.

Re: TSMC warns over deepening slump in chipmaking sector

#60

This boom/bust is really obvious with regards to computer prices. I'm seeing 2TB NVMe PCIe 4.0 SSDs with 7000+ MBps under $100 these days. Almost everything in the computer-world is on a significant sale.

Meanwhile, Apple charges hundreds of dollars at purchase time for 256GB more storage. And it's non-upgradable on top of that.
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