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Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

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Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#31

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

I feel like this title is the definition of "anti-clickbait" to me (i.e. I don't even want to read the article because of the title), because it makes no sense.

Oil is primarily an energy source. When we talk about "carbon" in the context of climate change we're usually talking about carbon dioxide, which is a byproduct of energy generation that itself contains no consumable energy. Saying "carbon will be the new oil" is like saying my poop will be my new food source - it just doesn't make sense.

Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#32

Post by jasonhong »

jansan wrote: post #29

Stupid question, can't the CO2 just be dissolved in (deep) sea water?

I'm not an expert in this, but this link from NOAA seems to be a definitive explanation. Short answer is yes, but it also leads to more ocean acidity, which causes problems for ocean life.

https://www.noaa.gov/education/resource-collections/ocean-co...

Carbon dioxide, which is naturally in the atmosphere, dissolves into seawater. Water and carbon dioxide combine to form carbonic acid (H2CO3), a weak acid that breaks (or “dissociates”) into hydrogen ions (H+) and bicarbonate ions (HCO3-).

Because of human-driven increased levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, there is more CO2 dissolving into the ocean. The ocean’s average pH is now around 8.1, which is basic (or alkaline), but as the ocean continues to absorb more CO2, the pH decreases and the ocean becomes more acidic.

Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#33

Post by jansan »

Kye wrote: post #30
jansan wrote: post #29

Stupid question, can't the CO2 just be dissolved in (deep) sea water?

CO2 dissolving into water is killing the ocean as we speak.

That is just on the surface, right? The mass of CO2 relased into the air per year compared to total sea water on earth is approx 1/35000. Does is really make such a big difference if dissolved in deep sea water?

Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#34

Post by Kye »

jansan wrote: post #33
Kye wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CO2 dissolving into water is killing the ocean as we speak.

That is just on the surface, right? The mass of CO2 relased into the air per year compared to total sea water on earth is approx 1/35000. Does is really make such a big difference if dissolved in deep sea water?

We know basically nothing about the ocean other than it's where almost all our oxygen comes from, and we have no way to know what the tipping point is. Assuming we're too small to affect the environment is how we got here.

And we know from effects of climate change above the surface that it doesn't have to be cataclysmic to cause trouble. There could be all kinds of nasty things in store that are even harder to predict with how hard it is to explore and study the oceans. We don't even have an accurate map of it.

Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#35

Post by xNeil »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #31

I feel like this title is the definition of "anti-clickbait" to me (i.e. I don't even want to read the article because of the title), because it makes no sense. Oil is primarily an energy source . When we talk about "carbon" in the context of climate change we're usually talking about carbon dioxide, which is a byproduct of energy generation that itself contains no consumable energy. Saying "carbon will be the new oi…

To be honest, I think "poop will be my new food source" makes perfect sense. But that might just be me.

Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#36

Post by notJim »

kdamica wrote: post #17

I would bet that this is not going to happen unless someone finds an industrial use for all that carbon. I’m not an expert but it seems like it would be much more efficient to invest in low carbon energy and manufacturing tech than to build a ton of infrastructure for sequestration.

The issue is that some things are difficult to decarbonize because they emit carbon directly due to chemical processes or use gas for process heat. There is a lot of investigation into whether these can be decarbonized economically, but a lot of it is still fairly early stages. It makes sense to have a variety of solutions available, especially for the short term.

Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#37

Post by 1letterunixname »

Too little, too late by the fox guarding the henhouse.

I hope government subsidies and the insurance industry bitch slap manufacturing and petrochem to drive rapid deployment of substantial projects involving oceanic bio-GMO CCS at scale because they won't by so-called "invisible hand" market forces alone until billions are on the move, hypercanes are obliterating continents, and waves are lapping at the NYSE building. It's an emergency, and delay, half-measures, and planting trees isn't going to cut it.

Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#38

Post by lincon127 »

Carbon Capture from industrial point sources is extremely expensive and extremely ineffective. so I doubt that's going to be a thing. The only way I could see CC paying off is if big companies keep lobbying for government grants and taxpayers money to go towards their shite projects so they can abandon them halfway through anyway. This'll keep the prospect of "clean methods" of operating dirty industries in everyone's brain space through political and astroturfed mouthpieces, people will start to believe it and oil companies will once again reap the rewards of mass confusion

Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#39

Post by hannob »

It's nonsense like this that makes a more rational debate around carbon capture difficult.

Yes, CCS will likely have to play some role in a future decarbonized society, e.g. for cement production. But it's not a plausible lifeline for fossil fuel companies. The vast bulk of emission reductions need to come from phasing down fossil fuel use, and that is fundamentally incompatible with their business model.

(shameless self plug: I tried to write down my view on the whole CCS issue recently: https://industrydecarbonization.com/news/can-ccs-escape-from... )

Re: Exxon bets carbon will be the new oil

#40

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

xNeil wrote: post #35
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #31

I feel like this title is the definition of "anti-clickbait" to me (i.e. I don't even want to read the article because of the title), because it makes no sense. Oil is primarily an energy source . When we talk about "carbon" in the context of climate change we're usually talking about carbon dioxide, which is a byproduct of energy generation that itself contains no consumable energy. Saying "carbon will be the new oi…

To be honest, I think "poop will be my new food source" makes perfect sense. But that might just be me.

Remind me to pass on any of your dinner parties...
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