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Diablo

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Re: Diablo

#41

Post by nonethewiser »

themagician wrote: post #33
musha68k wrote: post #18

Diablo is the original "anti-souls" game. The slot machine mechanics, the lacking of significant strategic elements and sense of hollow progression have always been key factors for my dissatisfaction with it. That said, the beautiful / dreadful / horror vibe and simplicity of the first game to this day regularly pull me in – only to ultimately dissatisfy me greatly. Each time. To me there is just "no there there" - a…

I've always loved this series. The problem, as I see it, is that the focus is always on tweaking the "endgame." I just find this to be silly. Once you get to the endgame it's pointless, and people basically blaze through the base game on purpose. And once you get there it really is no more than a slot machine that caters to people with serious gambling addictions. You run the same dungeons over and over again, someti…

> I feel like, particularly with the new Diablo 4 they could make the leveling curve on the base game last MUCH, MUCH longer and it would actually be far more enjoyable for far more people. It would piss off the endgame crowd though, because all they want to do is get to max level as fast as possible so they can start farming.

Didn’t all of this literally just happen?

Re: Diablo

#42

Post by ohwellhere »

carlisle_ wrote: post #29
musha68k wrote: post #18

Diablo is the original "anti-souls" game. The slot machine mechanics, the lacking of significant strategic elements and sense of hollow progression have always been key factors for my dissatisfaction with it. That said, the beautiful / dreadful / horror vibe and simplicity of the first game to this day regularly pull me in – only to ultimately dissatisfy me greatly. Each time. To me there is just "no there there" - a…

This is a strange post to me. You can immediately see that you value soulslike as a superior genre, yet to me I see those games are just as grindy. Die to a boss a million times to learn the timings -> finally you beat it. Not that much different than ARPGs where you kill lots of stuff and die infrequently. It's just two sides of the same coin. Really these posts that call one kind of game time wasting or drug-like b…

> Really these posts that call one kind of game time wasting or drug-like but not another just miss the brutal irony.

I think you're spot on.

> > To me there is just "no there there" - and that's probably the point?

In some ways I've always felt Diablo is just more honest about what a video game is.

Re: Diablo

#43

Post by butlike »

themagician wrote: post #33
musha68k wrote: post #18

Diablo is the original "anti-souls" game. The slot machine mechanics, the lacking of significant strategic elements and sense of hollow progression have always been key factors for my dissatisfaction with it. That said, the beautiful / dreadful / horror vibe and simplicity of the first game to this day regularly pull me in – only to ultimately dissatisfy me greatly. Each time. To me there is just "no there there" - a…

I've always loved this series. The problem, as I see it, is that the focus is always on tweaking the "endgame." I just find this to be silly. Once you get to the endgame it's pointless, and people basically blaze through the base game on purpose. And once you get there it really is no more than a slot machine that caters to people with serious gambling addictions. You run the same dungeons over and over again, someti…

I agree that's what it's evolved into for the most part, but also consider the point of Diablo is to "defeat Diablo." Simple as that. The endgame of min/maxing came because people continued to play after the main objective was done.

Re: Diablo

#44

Post by Paul_S »

Back when Diablo was released it wasn't uniformly praised like it is today. Aside from caricaturised RPG fans' scoffing there was a lot of criticism of its what we call today streamlining and what we used to call dumbing down. Interestingly back then there wasn't yet the research or even the vocabulary of addictive dopamine hit mechanics but there was already a not very well articulated feeling of a hamster wheel experience.

But yes, I did play Diablo 1 to completion. With all 3 characters.

Re: Diablo

#45

Post by aflag »

shultays wrote: post #39
carlisle_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a strange post to me. You can immediately see that you value soulslike as a superior genre, yet to me I see those games are just as grindy. Die to a boss a million times to learn the timings -> finally you beat it. Not that much different than ARPGs where you kill lots of stuff and die infrequently. It's just two sides of the same coin. Really these posts that call one kind of game time wasting or drug-like b…

I guess the difference is grinding against a challenge and grinding against RNG

How is that material in any way?

Re: Diablo

#46

Post by nullindividual »

duskwuff wrote: post #25
kzrdude wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diablo 2 is the only one I played deeply, it seems fresher since it has many acts/environments. Even though any single one of them could have boring parts.

> Even though any single one of them could have boring parts. The jungle areas in Act 3 were a particularly weak section, IMO.

Act 3 has a large difficulty spike and is frustrating (especially due to the dolls, etc.), but Kurask is a favorite farming area. Act 4 is boring, though easy to get rewards in due to how open the spaces are.

Re: Diablo

#47

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

jnovek wrote: post #40
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a thing in Diablo 2 and that's when the IP peaked, this got lost with Diablo 3 and, i believe even more so with Diablo 4.. all the builds are all discovered and in front of you, there is no tinkering with incredible skill interaction possible like we used to do in Diablo 2 It's kinda similar to how Bethesda manages the Elder Scrolls IP, ~ a decade between titles and they casualize(? is it a word)/simplify me…

> all the builds are all discovered Isn't that more a feature of the community than the game itself, though? You're always free to experiment and roll your own builds. That's what I'm doing with Diablo 4 and I'm having a blast. I don't care if I push the highest nightmare dungeon or even reach max level. I just want to see what I can do with a build that I come up with out of my own head.

I think that's more of a side effect of them wanting it to be a "game as a service", they need everything to be streamlined and balanced.. wich removes a lot of the fun..

I wish they'd have made D4 a proper single player game instead of an MMO, and let your community mod your game

Look at D2 and the sheer amount of mods.. same for Warcraft 3..

Re: Diablo

#48

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

nullindividual wrote: post #37
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a thing in Diablo 2 and that's when the IP peaked, this got lost with Diablo 3 and, i believe even more so with Diablo 4.. all the builds are all discovered and in front of you, there is no tinkering with incredible skill interaction possible like we used to do in Diablo 2 It's kinda similar to how Bethesda manages the Elder Scrolls IP, ~ a decade between titles and they casualize(? is it a word)/simplify me…

> casualize(? is it a word)/simplify mechanics 'streamline the fun out of'

Yeah that sounds like a better word, thanks

Re: Diablo

#49

Post by butlike »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #19
musha68k wrote: post #18

Diablo is the original "anti-souls" game. The slot machine mechanics, the lacking of significant strategic elements and sense of hollow progression have always been key factors for my dissatisfaction with it. That said, the beautiful / dreadful / horror vibe and simplicity of the first game to this day regularly pull me in – only to ultimately dissatisfy me greatly. Each time. To me there is just "no there there" - a…

> the lacking of significant strategic elements Planning for your gear and doing sims / optimizing are strategic elements, though potentially a meta-strategy?

I employee you to try a "no-town" run. It works in Diablo I and II. Essentially once you spawn in, you have to leave and never return which opens up interesting gameplay.

Waypoints? They're essentially useless. You can't return to town and why would you warp back to a cleared area?

Why go to the Den of Evil? You can't get the skill point from Akara anyways...

Town portals become useless, however, identify scrolls become one of the most valuable item. Do you hold onto the unid'd gloves that take up 4 inventory spots or drop it?

Do you equip the javelin that has 4 durability, or do you save it for the boss?

Do you remember where your cache of health pots were?

It's really hard and really fun. If you've tapped the Diablo reservoir and looking for something new, I'd try it

Re: Diablo

#50

Post by zanellato19 »

carlisle_ wrote: post #29
musha68k wrote: post #18

Diablo is the original "anti-souls" game. The slot machine mechanics, the lacking of significant strategic elements and sense of hollow progression have always been key factors for my dissatisfaction with it. That said, the beautiful / dreadful / horror vibe and simplicity of the first game to this day regularly pull me in – only to ultimately dissatisfy me greatly. Each time. To me there is just "no there there" - a…

This is a strange post to me. You can immediately see that you value soulslike as a superior genre, yet to me I see those games are just as grindy. Die to a boss a million times to learn the timings -> finally you beat it. Not that much different than ARPGs where you kill lots of stuff and die infrequently. It's just two sides of the same coin. Really these posts that call one kind of game time wasting or drug-like b…

> You can immediately see that you value soulslike as a superior genre, yet to me I see those games are just as grindy. Die to a boss a million times to learn the timings -> finally you beat it. Not that much different than ARPGs where you kill lots of stuff and die infrequently. It's just two sides of the same coin.

That's not the same at all. The grind is built into Diablo, there is no way to avoid it. I regularly play souslike, it has been years since I needed to grind out a boss.

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