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Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

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Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#61
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the task itself time boxed by the points you assign to the story? > "It is a 2 point story, why have you taken three weeks to complete it?"

This is only a guideline, don’t treat it like a hard rule. There could easily be good reasons why a 2 point story took three weeks. Also gotta stop the negative bias. People will want to complain easily if your 2 point story takes you three weeks, but no one will be singing praises if your 5 or 8 point story is done in a day.

If you finish your 8 point story in a day, you should pace your work better. ;)

Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#62
post #16

Modern corporate Agile isn't the same as Agile Manifesto Agile. Even though they have basically the same name, don't mix the two up. Sprints are one tool in your toolbox. Use them when it makes sense to do so. I view them as most helpful around scope limiting. The goal is working software of some sort by the end of the sprint. That requires you to think about the problem at hand and how to break it apart such that yo…

> Sprints are one tool in your toolbox. Use them when it makes sense to do so.

This sounds great in theory and I would totally agree (in theory), but my experience has been that it's the PMs or executives or higher managers that make the decision, regardless of what the engineers think. In fact, most of the times I've seen sprints pushed back on it ended up in bad feelings and unintended offense taken by PMs. In the end nothing chnages, except that the engineer who "stirred the pot" loses favor in the eyes of management.

If it was up to each developer or developer team, I would agree, but in reality it rarely is.

Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#63

After over a decade of this, I'm convinced "agile" (scrum, really) was created to provide more jobs for product managers and create fluff roles like "agile coach." It may have more value for less experienced teams. More experienced developers will become frustrated by the ceremonial nonsense. I prefer the kanban style.

Yeah, I think this is Scrum in specific. Unlike the other Agile methods, it had a revenue stream through certification. At the time I was like, "Hmm, something doesn't seem quite right to me, but I'm sure the best ideas will win out." I was very wrong. C.R.E.A.M., etc.

Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#64

I've worked agile for quite some years now. Please repeat after me: 1. The sprint goal is not a contract. The mental and physical well being of the developers always takes precedence over the sprint goal. The sprint goal is merely a guidance. 2. Not completing all stories at the end of the sprint should not make you feel bad. A sprint is always filled using estimates which never will be correct, and are often way to…

lol on #2: We had a funny situation where leaders were mad that tickets were getting carried over every sprint. We would then say that the velocity works out to the original planned velocity, the reason tickets would get carried over was that the devs would complete their tasks, then pull in tickets while the tasks went to QA for verification. Next sprint's ticket that would get pulled in would get done when it was supposed to: Next sprint.

The leaders were like "Why are you pulling in tickets you can't complete!?!" Which led to the hilarious exchange of trying to explain that they stated that devs can only work on tickets pulled in, but because QA happens before the ticket gets marked as done, the only way no work flows over is if the dev, after handing their last ticket to QA, sat on their hands for two days. They just couldn't wrap their head around it.

Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#65

I like sprints because they're discrete. We agree to a certain bit of work that can get done in a certain period, and we do our best to complete it. It helps us to think about breaking up our tasks, and how tasks can be broken up. At the end of the sprint, we get to take a bit of a breath, and prepare for more upcoming work. Kanban style means that it's just a marathon. There's no time to stop and take a breath, ther…

Do you actually get to take a break or a rest when finishing the sprint work early? In 10+ years of doing sprints, I don't think that's ever happened to me or my team. In practice if we finish early (which is rare, maybe 1 in 5 sprints) then we try to jam in some refactor or performance fix or bug fix or something, and that ends up taking at least the remaining sprint time. There is never a chance to catch a breath.

Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#66
post #25

> Interruptions and unforeseen tasks will occur. In a highly interrupted team, sprints don't work. Try lean/Kanban. You've not mentioned retrospectives, which are an important part of improving your processes, without that how can you make improvements? There's nothing in agile that talks about deadlines, it's about commitment.

> commitment

I am convinced that when people talk about burnout from trying to hit sprint goals, it's because of this word, and either being coerced one way or another into commitments they can't meet, or not having enough information or experience to judge what a reasonable commitment is.

It was recently changed in the Scrum Guide from "forecast", which is much more reasonable: you can track forecasts over time to improve them, and nobody expects a forecast to be bang on the money every time. "Commitment" doesn't work that way.

Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#67

CI/CD only helps release often if you're only producing one component. If you're changing multiple different components then you need to sync them all up so that they're all releasable at the same time. A sprint gives you a deadline for everything being releasable again. WIP limits are great until you're waiting for more information from a supplier on one ticket, feedback from a customer on another, and help from an…

> If you're changing multiple different components then you need to sync them all up so that they're all releasable at the same time

You don't need to sync them all up at all. In the majority of cases it's feasible to release multiple changed components one by one. Doing so results in better outcomes than trying to aim for big bang releases.

> WIP limits are great until you're waiting for more information from a supplier on one ticket, feedback from a customer on another, and help from an expert from another team on a third ticket, so you sigh and pick up a fourth ticket so you're getting something done.

This is a failure of management, not a failure of WIP limits. The correct thing to do in that situation (at least, from the point of view of WIP management) is to down tools and escalate, not to bring more work in.

Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#68

I've worked agile for quite some years now. Please repeat after me: 1. The sprint goal is not a contract. The mental and physical well being of the developers always takes precedence over the sprint goal. The sprint goal is merely a guidance. 2. Not completing all stories at the end of the sprint should not make you feel bad. A sprint is always filled using estimates which never will be correct, and are often way to…

It's remarkable how many people hurt themselves and their teams by considering sprint goals as must-complete. "We must complete the work we committed to!"

Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#69
Let's just get clear, I'm firmly against the cargo-cult version of scrum and sprints that looooots of companies and teams are applying.

To get back to your initial question about how you reconcile sprints, and more largely scrum, with the agile principles, it's actually pretty easy to do if you take a bare scrum and the principles themselves*

1. And 4. Customers are more satisfied and involved when you ask for guidance and feedback, i.e every two weeks when they look at what you did and tell you what is next

2. Welcome changing requirements - when you lock scope every two weeks, instead of at the beginning phase of a 6 month waterfall plan, this is checked.

3. 7. Continuous delivery - sprints are supposed to finish with a new version of the software that offers more features.

6. Face to face interaction through including business into demos and planning at leasing every two weeks.

And so on.

But.

The *moment* you depart from initial intent, it all goes through the window.

You commit to delivering a feature 6 months from now - you're done.

You stop delivering working software every two weeks, you're done.

Management starts interfering with roadmap, architecture, estimates and work method, you're done.

You insert pms and pos and layers and layers between the dev team and customers, you're done.

Etc. And of course scrum has been received by a layer of people who were used to working with a certain degree of control and certainty and tried to bring that back in scrum, which ended up making it worse than waterfall on all aspects (except maybe PR because no-one wants to sign up for waterfall).

Instead of taking a step back, thinking about what they need, and picking tools and practices that serve them, teams end up taking the thing as a whole, setup all the planning and grooming and demos and retros and blindly without a glance back, forgetting to apply any ci.

Can you reconcile agile and scrum? Yes. Should you "do scrum", fuck no.

* http://agilemanifesto.org/principles.html

Re: Ask HN: Do Agile 'Sprints' Benefit Software Developers?

#70

When I first started coding professionally, I thought sprints were stupid. We've got a backlog that will easily take us a year to complete. Why bother with organizing them into 2-week sections? Why not just finish a ticket, take the next one off the pile, and start working? Over time, I learned that time-boxing your work creates short-term goals, a slight sense of urgency, and some accountability. Otherwise, it's eas…

Isn't the task itself time boxed by the points you assign to the story? > "It is a 2 point story, why have you taken three weeks to complete it?"

Because sometimes you stumble on a graveyard and you end up cleaning out the corpses of developers past.
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