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Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

theatlantic.com

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Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#61

Post by uwagar »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #54
cyberax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Making" covers half a century of scientific advancement, from the age of steam to the nuclear weapons. And it was at the end the "heroic age" in physics. It's hard _not_ to make it read like an epic tale. "Dark Sun" is in contrast about a fairly small technological advancement, and it focuses more on politics. It's just too hard to make it similarly compelling.

I read the book decades ago. He describes the moment Leo Szilard is crossing a street in the rain and suddenly envisions the nuclear chain reaction. Reading it I felt like the entire Earth must have shuddered at that moment and in that instant the destruction of the human race was suddenly laid out for Szilard. I confess I did not know who Szilard was at that time.

this crossing the street of leo szilard is also imprinted in my memory reading the book. aparently near british museum, bloomsbury. once i crossed the lights there too and recalled it.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#62

Post by stoneman24 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #54
cyberax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Making" covers half a century of scientific advancement, from the age of steam to the nuclear weapons. And it was at the end the "heroic age" in physics. It's hard _not_ to make it read like an epic tale. "Dark Sun" is in contrast about a fairly small technological advancement, and it focuses more on politics. It's just too hard to make it similarly compelling.

I read the book decades ago. He describes the moment Leo Szilard is crossing a street in the rain and suddenly envisions the nuclear chain reaction. Reading it I felt like the entire Earth must have shuddered at that moment and in that instant the destruction of the human race was suddenly laid out for Szilard. I confess I did not know who Szilard was at that time.

In addition, he also wrote a collection of science fiction stories “the voice of the dolphins”. I’ll need to get it from the attic and see if I still like them. I thought they were pretty good but that was a long time ago. Thanks for making me think of him, again.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#63

Post by Lamad123 »

sklargh wrote: post #6

I recommend Rhodes’ “Making of” and Dark Sun with American Prometheus and the Los Alamos Primer for people seeking a thorough initial introduction to the Manhattan Project and little bit of postscript. Indulging myself a bit here. Essentially all elements of modern society have at least a tangential relationship with Los Alamos. The symmetry between a nuclear detonation and what happened intellectually and culturally…

Not much happened " intellectually and culturally" after the said event!! Modern science was started with the likes of Galileo and Copernicus, was crystallized at the time of Newton and some great improvements happened in the 19th century and very early decades of the 20th. I think the impact of the steam engine and the discovery/development of vaccines in the 18th century are much more impactful than anything humans did after the Manhattan project, apart, maybe, from artificial fertilizers (Oh that was developed before the great war). Planes, cars, sliced bread all came before!!! There is only one exception, computers but these haven't done much to add to mankind happiness. They replaced fax machines and are trying to replace phones helped spread pornography and rage, but so far their effect on humanity is marginal compared to the steam engine or even sliced bread.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#64

Post by localplume »

0xDEF wrote: post #53

Both Oppenheimer and Teller made numerous visits to Israel. Oppenheimer admitted he helped them make fast breeder reactors to produce plutonium for fission bombs and Teller admitted he helped them make fusion/hydrogen bombs. Why is this information not included in modern coverage of Oppenheimer and Teller? Why were they given a slap on the wrist when other "Atomic spies" were fried in the electric chair for sharing n…

I imagine they made numerous visits to Israel because they were Jewish, just as Einstein did. Although Oppenheimer is said to have been ashamed of his Jewishness and tried to hide it, he still was a supporter of Israel and of course this meant helping their nuclear program. He met with Weizmann in 47 and Ben-Gurion in 52, literally just after the holocaust. He helped Israel as he was concerned about Egyptian-Russian relations and securing the position of the only Jewish majority state in the world in the wake of the largest industrialized genocide. Ben-Gurion recruited many Jewish scientists with the explicit goal of ensuring something like the holocaust never happened again. The french also helped newly independent Israel.

Why would this information be relevant in modern coverage of Oppenheimer and Teller? They weren't atomic spies selling secrets to an enemy state? The USSR was obviously not equivalent to Israel given the US was the first country to even recognize Israel. Post-WW2 the world was fractured into the eastern and western blocs, and obviously the USSR was the enemy. So I don't see your point

Finally, Israel's nuclear weapons policy is drastically different to that of the US or the then-USSR. The purpose is entirely defensive as Israel is a small country surrounded by majority-Muslim countries which have invaded Israel several times; Israel cannot afford to lose a war as this threatens the very existence of Jews. The US and USSR had very different, intentionally antagonistic policies with the exact opposite of deliberate ambiguity.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#65

Post by [deleted] »

philomath_mn wrote: post #10
opwieurposiu wrote: post #5

The thing that struck me from this book (or maybe it was in "Dark Sun") was how much the soviets were spying. We were giving them detailed plans for chemical factories, tire factories, engines, alloys, anything you can think of. They did not trust us so they would spy on all this stuff anyway. They would fill up a C-47 Skytrains(lend-lease) with stolen documents and fly them out to Moscow through Alaska. I have to gi…

Well, to be fair, spying on a free and open society is much easier than spying on the opposite.

[deleted]

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#66

Post by twoodfin »

hgsgm wrote: post #40
InTheArena wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. It gets far worse the further you get - it wasn't just spying. Sean McMeekan's recent book details how pervasive it was - for example, Harry Dexter White was in the Department of treasury, helped write the Morgenthau plan, which extended the war, and assigned "the booty" of germany to the soviets and leaked it to the soviets and the press. That led to "a near-miraculous revitalization of the German army." The s…

What do you mean? Why would leaking the plan to the Soviets mean anything? Why would the Soviets want a longer war?

At that point, a longer war in the West meant further and more secure Soviet advances in the East.

The Morgenthau plan implied a harsh post-war settlement for Germany, and at the time was viewed as effectively inspiring the Germans to fight on rather than capitulate or revolt against the failing Nazi regime.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#67

Post by justrealist »

zirgs wrote: post #57
hgsgm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same today with the war on Ukraine. Spending citize' s lives is a great way to prop up a failed regime.

Yup. If Russian soldiers stop dying then Putin falls out of a window.

I don't think it's that easy to explain. Putin could declare victory (Ukraine is demilitarized) and withdraw today, and most Russians would believe it (or at least, not care about the truth).

The worse but more explicable answer is that it's stubbornness and pride on Putin's part in his national aspirations for Russia, for his external image, not his internal one.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#68

Post by zirgs »

justrealist wrote: post #67
zirgs wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. If Russian soldiers stop dying then Putin falls out of a window.

I don't think it's that easy to explain. Putin could declare victory (Ukraine is demilitarized) and withdraw today, and most Russians would believe it (or at least, not care about the truth). The worse but more explicable answer is that it's stubbornness and pride on Putin's part in his national aspirations for Russia, for his external image, not his internal one.

If he withdraws from Crimea - he's dead. Everybody will see that as a miserable defeat.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#69

Post by uhtred »

gerikson wrote: post #2

I read this years and years ago, it's really readable despite being very very long.

Out of interest are you a physicist or chemist, or have a very good understanding of either of those subjects?

Asking because I found the book extremely dry and hard to get excited about (I only read the first half admittedly) due to it seeming to be aimed at people who do understand that stuff quite deeply. I'm amazed so many people can enjoy it.

For example, was I supposed to know who all those early twentieth century physicists were? It seemed like I was. Apart from Einstein and Oppenheimer I hadn't really heard of most of them.

Re: Richard Rhodes wrote a classic book about Oppenheimer and the atomic bomb

#70

Post by swimfar »

0xDEF wrote: post #53

Both Oppenheimer and Teller made numerous visits to Israel. Oppenheimer admitted he helped them make fast breeder reactors to produce plutonium for fission bombs and Teller admitted he helped them make fusion/hydrogen bombs. Why is this information not included in modern coverage of Oppenheimer and Teller? Why were they given a slap on the wrist when other "Atomic spies" were fried in the electric chair for sharing n…

Can anyone comment on why this was downvoted? Is it not true? Even though sharing secrets with the Soviets would have been different from sharing them with Israel, if it was unsanctioned it still seems like this is a big deal.
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