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Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

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Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#141

> Rather than introduce just the number of particles released by one container, the researchers instead exposed the cells to particle concentrations that infants and toddlers might accumulate over days or from multiple sources. > After two days, just 23% of kidney cells exposed to the highest concentrations had managed to survive So they used concentrations that they believe toddlers might accumulate over two days an…

I don't have access to the paper, but just reading the abstract it gives these numbers:

> Exposure modeling results suggested that the highest estimated daily intake was 20.3 ng/kg·day for infants drinking microwaved water and 22.1 ng/kg·day for toddlers consuming microwaved dairy products from polypropylene containers.

> Furthermore, an in vitro study conducted to assess the cell viability showed that the extracted microplastics and nanoplastics released from the plastic container can cause the death of 76.70 and 77.18% of human embryonic kidney cells (HEK293T) at 1000 μg/mL concentration after exposure of 48 and 72 h, respectively.

If I'm reading this right, they exposed these HEK293T kidney cells to far higher concentrations (1000 μg is 1000000 ng, and that's per mL) than toddlers would be exposed to from these containers. So the fact that the cells die doesn't really mean much, since exposure to too much of anything will cause cells to die.

The real question is whether the exposure you'd receive from occasional microwaving would be enough to ever cause any meaningful health problems. Unfortunately papers like these always like to talk about dramatic metrics like 'billions of nanoplastics' without putting that into any meaningful context.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly were those studies on? Those bags are almost certainly polyethyelene without any additives, which is safe and has been in widespread use for almost a century. Petroleum jelly is far more reactive than PE, although it's substantially the same chemical structure, yet most of us regularly use it on our skin. If the biggest concern about sous vide is the plastic, then I think that's a very strong argument fo…

While the end of your comment could be seen as 'whatabout-ism', you are right that in simply over cooking something or just adding to much salts/sugars to some foods would probably be a bigger issue.

Salt and sugars are natural parts of our environment and salt is actually a necessary part of our diet. We have organs evolved explicitly for the purpose of maintaining homeostasis of salt and sugar, namely our kidneys and pancreas.

For plastics we have no evolved tolerance.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#143

> Rather than introduce just the number of particles released by one container, the researchers instead exposed the cells to particle concentrations that infants and toddlers might accumulate over days or from multiple sources. > After two days, just 23% of kidney cells exposed to the highest concentrations had managed to survive So they used concentrations that they believe toddlers might accumulate over two days an…

The article is only presenting that: 1. nano/microplastics kill kidney cells in a lab environment 2. nano/microplastics come from microwaving containers Regardless of whether you agree with the conclusion _you_ are drawing from reading the article, the article is saying those things. In order to make a real-world-ish experiment, we'd have to start experimenting on children. I feel that while you're expressing outrage…

You wouldn’t have to experiment on children as such. You can follow children who were Brest fed and children who were bottle fed and compare the two.

It’s sort of a worrying study for me personally. Because bottle feeding only really works so well because you can microwave, both for cleaning and for heating, modern bottles so easily. If you have to go back to glass containers it’ll be a literal nightmare for most parents.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#144
I've always had a not so enthusiastic opinion about microwaves. The tech just didn't sit right with me.

Finally some years I gave in and bought one. 2 months later it broke. Never replaced it. Good riddance.

I just use the stove/oven. It is slower but I understand it.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#145
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we’re not seeing toddlers around the world have kidney problems is it possible that then we don't fully understand the resilience of the human body? It is certainly possible, when the article can state that: > the health effects of consuming micro- and nanoplastics remain unclear

We are seeing a steady increase in childhood cancer [0] and our male population now has half the sperm count the same population had in 70s [1]. [0]: https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2020/212/3/incidence-childhoo... [1]: https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2022/11/why-are-male-testo...

Those things could be related to any change in society. There's nothing to suggest it's plastics in particular, right?

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#146

> Rather than introduce just the number of particles released by one container, the researchers instead exposed the cells to particle concentrations that infants and toddlers might accumulate over days or from multiple sources. > After two days, just 23% of kidney cells exposed to the highest concentrations had managed to survive So they used concentrations that they believe toddlers might accumulate over two days an…

It's bad reporting. The actual numbers from the abstract are "22.1 ng/kg·day" for the worst case ingested dose, and "1000 μg/mL" for the tested toxic concentration. If you assume the solvent is water (solvent isn't specified in the abstract but water is the obvious choice) and convert the units to make it easier to compare, that toxic dose is "1,000,000,000ng/kg". There's no plausible way a toddler is going to accumulate that much within "days".

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#147
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is only presenting that: 1. nano/microplastics kill kidney cells in a lab environment 2. nano/microplastics come from microwaving containers Regardless of whether you agree with the conclusion _you_ are drawing from reading the article, the article is saying those things. In order to make a real-world-ish experiment, we'd have to start experimenting on children. I feel that while you're expressing outrage…

You wouldn’t have to experiment on children as such. You can follow children who were Brest fed and children who were bottle fed and compare the two. It’s sort of a worrying study for me personally. Because bottle feeding only really works so well because you can microwave, both for cleaning and for heating, modern bottles so easily. If you have to go back to glass containers it’ll be a literal nightmare for most par…

So the dish washer is out? There is those sterilization things where you add a little water and put the bottles in steam for a few minutes. No idea what the risks there might be, but this is what my sister did, and I think it was plastic bottles at first, though she switched to glass with her second child because of micro plastic concerns etc.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#148
post #29
post #8

Oof how bad. Can they study dishwashing plastics next? Good thing I used glass. I think parents these days are rather more aware of plastic leaching than those of the previous generation.

The worry with glass is that it's dangerous if it breaks. I find stainless steel Bento boxes are excellent if it's not something that needs a tight seal.

Enamel tableware were once popular and still available. Enamel is glass like in its properties and should be as safe as glass (unless lead containing colour pigment is used which should not be the case nowadays).

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#149
post #4

> then heated them at full power for three minutes in a 1,000-watt microwave This seems like unrealistic use of a microwave. The liquids are likely boiling for well over a minute. Are people really boiling liquids in the containers they’re serving their infant children? I’m not especially plastic-phobic but I also don’t think a reasonable person would think it is a good idea to boil liquids in their children’s bottle…

https://blog.mambaby.co.uk/feeding/how-to-self-sterilise-the... Popular milk bottle brand instructing users how to sterilize their product with the microwave. Boiling milk bottles is a very common way of sterilization as well.

I can confirm this is common. But after sterilizing the bottle or washing the bottle, you don't give that water to the child. One usually just cleans using the microwave, rinse it out, then you add water from another source that hasn't been in the microwave in a plastic container.

Re: Study finds billions of nanoplastics released when microwaving containers

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 20 years ago I used to make boiled potatoes in the microwave - just had to boil in there for a good 10 minutes in a plastic container... yeah that wasn't so great.

I learnt a technique of poking holes in them and wrapping them in paper towels. Hopefully tiny pieces kitchen paper towels are safer to eat than nano plastic particles..

Now you gotta deal with nano paper particles in your blood stream.
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