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A third of North America’s birds have vanished

nautil.us

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Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#891

Post by wilg »

OO000oo wrote: post #145
wilg wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit confused by this: > Unless governments take action and penalize corporations for the harm they've done and take measures to prevent further harm, we won't be able to stop what's coming. What corporations? It sounds like your neighbors are just individuals? And can you clarify "what's coming"?

The owning/ruling class is directly responsible for the overwhelming majority of the pollution and environmental destruction on the planet. This is not complicated.

Yeah you can account for it that way, but the people who buy the products and use the services the owning class owns and operates are indirectly responsible, so individual action is very much relevant!

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#892

Post by jeffchien »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

The most impactful solution for individuals is also enormously unpopular in certain societies, especially the US and Canada: eat less beef. Beef takes a horrendous amount of land to produce: https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#893

Post by hasbot »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #888
hasbot wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawns aren't the problem. I used to live within the Willamette National Forest in Oregon and there is no wildlife there. Sure, there's a few deer, bear, and birds, but no where near as much wildlife as I can find in my suburban neighborhood. The original forest was nearly completely clearcut and replanted very densely with just a few species of timber trees. The canopy is so dense, there is no under story. There is n…

> Lawns aren't the problem > The original forest was nearly completely clearcut...just a few species of timber trees. So clearcutting and planting non-local, dominating plants isn't the problem,but clear cutting and planting non-local, dominating plants is the problem. This is obviously two sides of the same coin, when you remove native plants, native wildlife goes away. Just because certain species of wildlife can m…

The timber trees that were planted were local species. It is the monoculture that is the problem.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#894

Post by giantg2 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #883
dunefox wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Horned Owls apparently also kill cats, so that might be a perfect solution.

Owl also kill other birds, so...

They can, but that's less of an issue since other birds are not active at the same time.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#895

Post by dunefox »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #883
dunefox wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Horned Owls apparently also kill cats, so that might be a perfect solution.

Owl also kill other birds, so...

But they're not pets that are released into the wild by the million.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#896

Post by MSFT_Edging »

hasbot wrote: post #893
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lawns aren't the problem > The original forest was nearly completely clearcut...just a few species of timber trees. So clearcutting and planting non-local, dominating plants isn't the problem,but clear cutting and planting non-local, dominating plants is the problem. This is obviously two sides of the same coin, when you remove native plants, native wildlife goes away. Just because certain species of wildlife can m…

The timber trees that were planted were local species. It is the monoculture that is the problem.

Even if they were local, you're still describing a situation where human intervention planted a monoculture that's terrible for the environment.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#897

Post by hasbot »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #896
hasbot wrote: post #893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The timber trees that were planted were local species. It is the monoculture that is the problem.

Even if they were local, you're still describing a situation where human intervention planted a monoculture that's terrible for the environment.

That's what I was pointing out. What's your point or are you just repeating me?

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#898

Post by zizee »

leeoniya wrote: post #71
zizee wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the talk about becoming an interplanetary (mars) species for our own survival has to be the most absurd statement that can be made to dismiss the very real problems...but billionaires need an excuse to play Tony Stark. This is a thinly veiled dig at Elon musk. It's so weird that you think what he's doing is the problem, with his efforts bringing about electric cars earlier than what would have happened. He migh…

the guy dropped how much coin on a social media platform that could have gone to the very environmental causes that he claims to want to advance? what do you think $44 billion in climate/epa lobbying would look like? teslas still have to be manufactured. he probably would've had a greater climate impact if he purchased everyone on earth the same model bicycle that can be repaired/reused indefinitely. we should be try…

My point was not that Elon is a saint, or the best thing for the planet. Instead that there are so many individuals and companies that are much more deserving of your ire. But you're distracted by Elon's antics that you're ignoring much more legitimate threats to the environment.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#899

Post by zizee »

mptest wrote: post #93
zizee wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the talk about becoming an interplanetary (mars) species for our own survival has to be the most absurd statement that can be made to dismiss the very real problems...but billionaires need an excuse to play Tony Stark. This is a thinly veiled dig at Elon musk. It's so weird that you think what he's doing is the problem, with his efforts bringing about electric cars earlier than what would have happened. He migh…

>his efforts bringing about Government subsidies and his engineers brought that about. Not Elon freaking musk. Stop drinking his kool aid.

It is your own biases making you misinterpret my words. I did not say Elon singly handedly achieved anything. But it's undeniable that he did put in effort with Tesla, and that helped bring electric cars to market, helping to start the transition away from ICE.

I don't think Elon is a saint, there's plenty not to like. But I think that you're so angered by him (probably drinking an alternative brand coolaid) that you're willing to discount any positive contribution, action, or utterance from Elon. Usually people aren't all good or all bad, as much as we'd like the world to be that simple.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#900

Post by Theory42 »

zerodensity wrote: post #343
bmitc wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The planet will be fine. It's humankind that's at stake. This is oft repeated, but it fails short of anything meaningful. The planet, as in a rock floating around in space, will be fine, yes. But what about the untold amount of species of plants and animals that are suffering and will continue to suffer in our wake?

They will adapt or die and something will replace them. Diversity will go down for a while and then back up again. It's almost impossible to sterilize Earth and as long as something lives on it will eventually flourish again. It will never be the same but something else will flourish.

True, but we're talking about millions of years of possible desolation before that happens.
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