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FedNow Is Live

federalreserve.gov

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lived in Japan twenty years ago, everybody just wired money electronically and checks were long obsolete. In the US, I write checks every week or so. They also had a system where you would put your checkbook into the teller machine and it would print your credits and debits into the book for you. It was very convenient. On the downside, the ATMs were turned off (!) during national holidays, so you had to get c…

Surprised you're writing checks every week: I haven't written a check in years. ACH transfers, sure, but not physical checks. I do still receive them occasionally, almost always as printed checks from companies.

It depends. I have to use checks to pay my landscaper and housekeeper, because there isn't another unilateral payment document.

By this I mean, in the US everyone could use CashApp, Venmo, PayPal, Zelle (glorified ACH, right?), etc. for p2p payment. If you have the same bank, many banks have a trivial "send money to another customer's account" feature. However, to do so requires essentially a 'handshake' where the two parties agree on a method. Checks require no up-front handshake, since everyone knows what to do with a check (deposit it at your ATM, take a picture of it with mobile app, or take it to a check-cashing place or the issuing bank).

If I could print on paper a key or QR code that allows you to claim the money into the account of your choice, like a check does, I'd use that. Sadly, banks seem to have put their effort into Zelle instead.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#372

It will be interesting to see how this affects "toxic," deplatformed, and to some degree debanked (at least from PayPal and CC processors) entities, like the KiwiFarms. While this page is somewhat vague about the private/public status of the Fed: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm it seems pretty well established that federally chartered corporations, like the USPS and Amtrak (e.g., https://en.wikipe…

I think KiwiFarms is a cesspool and I think Null in particular is an extremely crappy human, but despite that I disagreed with the credit card processors pulling them, because they really did have a near-monopoly for online payments, meaning that this could be considered stifling of free speech.

However, I think I'll have less of an issue for it if there's the government-backed means in which to send them money; at that point I think the "it's a private company!" defense would actually apply to the credit card companies.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#373
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being paid in a ‘programmable’ currency that your employer (or government) decides cannot be spent on alcohol, meat, or fossil fuels. Meanwhile, wealthier people get paid in ‘unrestricted’ currency.

Why would they want to do that? How would either your employer or the fed have the grounds to justify doing that?

it's what they do with foodstamps already, is the point. I don't know whether that'll atually happen, but that's the theory.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#374
post #338

> Banks and credit unions of all sizes can sign up and use this tool to instantly transfer money for their customers, any time of the day, on any day of the year. Come on... Being capable of sending money to someone easily should not be based on the bank.

Your money is located somewhere and your recipient has their money located somewhere. The places where your money sits needs to interoperate with whatever "thing" you're using to send money. Presuming that your money sits in a bank/credit union, you arrive at the quoted statement. If your money is paper in a sack somewhere, you can mail it, but it might not make it all the way.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#375
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why ~FedNow and CBDC~ BIG BROTHER are such a big issue in the US. Fixed this for you. I don't really want a gigantic federal agency having insight into every financial transaction I make. Hard, fucking, pass.

Just wondering, but how is this different from our current system where judges can approve search warrants and companies have to comply? Are you think they won’t need search warrants?

Cash isn't recordable in the same way. I don't provide my id with the transaction when making cash purchases.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#376

For those curious, it is really using IBM MQ[1] under the hood and uses a bespoke flavor of the ISO 20022 specification. The FedNow Service itself is the tip of the iceberg in terms of what actually happens from an end-to-end perspective. We've been working to become a Certified Service Provider so feel free to ask me anything. I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA. [1] https://www.ibm.com/products/mq

> I'm happy to share anything that is not under NDA.

Meta-questions that you quite possibly can't answer: broadly speaking, what parts of this system are under NDA? Why would any part of this system be under NDA? Did any government agencies impose the NDA, or was it private companies? Is the NDA intended to protect those running the system, or is it intended to protect those using the system (IOW, is it security by obscurity)?

Re: FedNow Is Live

#377
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever heard of cash? I can buy an icecream anywhere in the world without anybody tracking me. Even with the "wrong" political opinion (even if I would be a trucker in Canada during certain protests). I cannot do that with CBDC. No. CBDC (aka: the ultimate totalitarian's dream) is not the same as the current banking system, despite the current banking system also being very horrible for privacy. * All of the above assu…

That's a very load-bearing assumption.

Not as load bearing when you look at the legal limits of cash transactions in countries in Europe. Also not so load bearing when you consider the unconstitutional civil asset forfeiture of the current US.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#378
post #16

why? don't we already have Zelle and Venmo that does just that?

Zelle is closed to the few banks that partner with the private banks that run it. Venmo is a private company that siphons your data for sale. FedNow is a long-term replacement of ACH, which the Fed Reserve banks already run. This system is open to all US financial entities. The platform also uses a ISO standard https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/prepar...

It surprises me because in Canada the Interac e-transfer system has been flawless in my anecdotal cases. Albeit one known issue is reversals allowing fraud, but I assume any non-cryptographic solution will have the same issue.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#380
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for Zelle/Venmo/etc.. Zelle is for P2P (person to person) and FedNow is for A2A (account to account). There are no take backs on FedNow so it's not intended to be used for P2P. No take backs means no recourse for fraud etc.. FedNow should supplant ACH waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the line.

There's also no take backs on Zelle, Venmo, or Cash App.

I can't speak to Venmo/Cashapp, but Zelle does take backs. It's for specific areas of fraud such as the fraudster impersonating a government official/agency, or things like fake not for profits.
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