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FedNow Is Live

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#251

Post by solardev »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #153
solardev wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military? When was the last time they turned on the citizens? I don't live in Tiananmen, thankfully. Meanwhile it's private companies that oppress most of us: private hospitals, private prisons, private insurances companies, private credit bureaus, private banks, private tech companies, private surveillance companies, private small arms manufacturers and dealers. It ain't the government that's crimping my freedom…

Forget the military, when was the last time the government used force on its own citizens? Probably 1 second ago, and thousands of times a day. Are you really more oppressed by a private hospital today than you are by literally thousands of laws that have penalties that will put you in prison? I'm not pro private hospital, or anti-law, but let's be real about who has ultimate control of your freedom. Even if we grant…

If the question is "are you really more oppressed by the private sector than the government"... then the answer for me is, 100% yes. Healthcare is a big one (the insurance industry, along with Republicans, not wanting single-payer). Tax filing is another one (damn you, Intuit). Hospital pricing opacity another one (until recently).

Meanwhile the government protects many of my "freedoms" from private intrusions when it comes to things like bankruptcy protections, credit bureau limitations, telemarketing, angry gunowners, etc.

I've run into trouble with the law on a few occasions, but it was never terribly oppressive -- probably largely thanks to my race, class, and politics. If I were a poor Black man or a conservative white man, I'd probably have a very different view of government.

Thinking about it some more, I think think this just circles back to the old "freedom from" and "freedom to" debate... not sure that's worth getting too much into here, since we're unlikely to change anyone's minds or reveal new perspectives.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#252

Post by wtmt »

This is a bit off topic for the post, but relevant for some of the comments here.

For those who are commenting about payment systems in India and comparing this to UPI (Unified Payments Interface), this is not like UPI in a few ways.

Firstly, this is more closer to a faster version of RTGS (Real Time Gross Settlement) in India, which is operated by the RBI (Reserve Bank of India). Speaking from experience, RTGS in India can take several minutes or even 20 minutes or longer, belying the “real time” in its name (this is true even now). The FedNow system is supposed to be real time (we’ll soon know how well it performs in comparison).

Secondly, UPI is a payments system by a consortium called NPCI that’s owned by private, public and foreign banks in India. It is not owned by RBI. FedNow is owned by the Federal Reserve, and not by a bunch of banks.

With both RTGS (and the slower batched transfer system called NEFT) in India and FedNow in the US, the interbank settlement is done via the central bank (RBI or Federal Reserve).

Re: FedNow Is Live

#253

Post by chimeracoder »

Mortiffer wrote: post #83

Amazing news. Kinda sad to see that Stripe was not on the list of early adopters but I'm sure they will implement it soon. In Switzerland we build an awesome eBill system ontop of the equivalent thing to FedNow. Its all run by Six Group which is the biggest Stock Exchange but it is jointly owned by the big banks and government. So they all agreed to add this eBilling system. Its so much superior to having paper come…

> Kinda sad to see that Stripe was not on the list of early adopters but I'm sure they will implement it soon.

Given Stripe's role in the system, it doesn't make sense for them to support it until there's sufficient support from the banks as well. Until banks support it, it doesn't matter if Stripe (or any payment platform) does, because the users won't see any benefit.

> Driving the news: "We're tracking it closely," President of Product and Business Will Gaybrick says, noting the company is not actively working on anything related to FedNow. "I really do think real-time payments are going to be a big deal."

> "As I understand FedNow, there isn't yet a mandate, so banks don't have to implement it," he added. "For things to completely change the landscape of payments, you need universal coverage."

> If, for instance, only 30% of banks support FedNow, then it's unlikely to become a priority for merchants to adopt the system.

https://www.axios.com/pro/fintech-deals/2023/06/14/fednow-st...

> The Financial Technology Association, which represents fintechs including Block, Marqeta, Stripe and Wise, among others, is urging the Fed to make direct access to the new faster payments system, called FedNow, more widely available so fintechs can tap the new service without going through banks.

> Generally, only licensed banks have access to the Fed’s master accounts, giving them clearance to use FedNow’s faster payments system when it’s available, but nonbank fintechs argue it’s shortsighted to exclude them from the same direct access to the new public system. While there is also The Clearing House’s rival RTP Network, the new FedNow system may provide more cost-effective services.

https://www.bankingdive.com/news/fintech-federal-reserve-pay...

Re: FedNow Is Live

#254

Post by 2143 »

earthboundkid wrote: post #221
2143 wrote: post #179

Funny thing about topics like this is that people of any given country is oblivious to how other countries have solved that problem, or the challenges other countries face, or inturn the problems that they themselves face. Regarding payment systems specifically, people generally don't realize what they're missing. Pick anybody from anywhere and they'll tell you they've been able to do everything they ever wanted to d…

When I lived in Japan twenty years ago, everybody just wired money electronically and checks were long obsolete. In the US, I write checks every week or so. They also had a system where you would put your checkbook into the teller machine and it would print your credits and debits into the book for you. It was very convenient. On the downside, the ATMs were turned off (!) during national holidays, so you had to get c…

> They also had a system where you would put your checkbook into the teller machine and it would print your credits and debits into the book for you.

That's intresting to know.

Where I'm at, we had (still have?) a "passbook", a small booklet where you could get all your transactions printed onto.

But AFAIK we couldn't do it ourselves through the teller machine though. Once in a few months or so you go to the respective bank and ask the staff there to update the passbook. They use a machine, however.

Of course, there days it's unnecessary as you can electronically download a list of your transactions for a given period from the bank's website/app.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#255

Post by solardev »

kube-system wrote: post #112
drivebyhooting wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PayPal doesn’t have a military and doesn’t extract taxes from you though.

If your government's military wanted to oppress you, PayPal wouldn't protect you from the consequences. No payment system ever conceived by even the stanchest technoanarchist is immune to bullets.

It's a bit ironic... all this talk about crypto evading government hasn't really changed much. Then you have multinationals like Meta and Apple that really do have more money and power than most governments because of their centralization and scale.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#256

Post by mixmastamyk »

ishanjain28 wrote: post #198
mixmastamyk wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Address book and search can help with that. Worked in NZ anyway.

well yes but the addressing scheme we use here is so much simpler. I hope they incorporate it at some point

Hmm, may be biased but don’t feel email address format for bank accounts is a big win. Seems to confuse rather than simplify.

On the other hand routing plus account number is kinda long.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#258

Post by chimeracoder »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #236
nordsieck wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. But it doesn't seem to me like there's a huge difference between "Know Your Customer" + FDIC and Fed Now aside from removing risk to consumers that most people ignore anyhow.

There's a big difference between checking passports before onboarding a customer, and sending every transaction to the federal government in real time.

> There's a big difference between checking passports before onboarding a customer, and sending every transaction to the federal government in real time.

I guess there's technically a difference between "sending every transaction to the federal government in real-time" (FedNow) and "sending every transaction to the federal government, in batches three times per day" (the status quo).

But from a privacy standpoint, the two are functionally identical.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#259

Post by figassis »

no_wizard wrote: post #96

Is there going to be a universal SDK / API we can use with this? This would cut alot of middle companies out of the payments industry (or at least put pressure on lowering fees). That would be a huge win. Wish we could do the same for the credit card companies. Would be great if the Federal Government could intervene in some way to have Visa / Mastercard / American Express / Discover use the same API interface for pa…

This is usually never the way it happens. The government does not make market ending decisions on a whim. It would have already met with the biggest stakeholders and fedNow is likely the result of many considerations and compromises. Visa will likely not be threatened any time soon.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#260

Post by EgregiousCube »

iudqnolq wrote: post #20
lisper wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this akin to government-backed Venmo, or something? Yes, exactly. But you have to keep in mind that this is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, it's going to be convenient and probably secure. On the other hand, it's going to let the government see every transaction you make, which for some people will be a very high price to pay.

> On the other hand, it's going to let the government see every transaction you make Can you go into more detail here on what you think will change from the status quo? Existing bank transfers are obviously not secret from the government on request. While the government doesn't have direct access to run search heuristics on the whole dataset they just delegate that to the banks' internal compliance team.

It lowers the cost of the government performing wide surveillance of financial activity; the fear is that lowering this cost will enable more advanced forms of detection and enforcement that ultimately look and feel like harassment.
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