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New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

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Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#221

Post by ceejayoz »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #176
iudqnolq wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this until I tried to actually watch and understand body cam footage. it's quite a lot harder to parse and misses quite a bit that cell phone cameras capture. there's also an interesting argument that by always showing the officers' perspective it will make people more likely to empathize with them. I'm not sure exactly why bodycam footage is so much worse. I think part of it might have to do with the odd h…

I've watched lots of body cam footage as well. One interesting aspect is that apparently multiple departments allow officers to turn the camera off at will.

In theory, it's intended for things like officers going to the bathroom, or when interviewing witnesses who don't want to be on camera due to concerns about retalliation or discussing sensitive stuff like a rape.

In practice, it's often used less... wholesomely, as you'd expect.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#222

Post by ceejayoz »

thefurdrake wrote: post #135
euniceee3 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25' is fine if ALL officers involved have body cameras. Getting that footage should be as simple FOIL request. There needs to be a streamlined process for citizens to obtain footage as easy as it is to browse on Nextdoor. The problem is when you have a police line established that is 25' from the action and then have to move back another 25'.

Police camera footage should definitely, 100%, be public record the moment it's taken, I agree. Part of the problem isn't actually refusal to cooperate on the part of police orgs, though. I happen to know second-hand that the companies operating the cameras provide abysmal and overcomplex, failure-prone software and hardware, and storing all that camera footage in a way that is quickly accessible to the public would…

It's a bit odd that exculpatory bodycam footage tends to be a lot faster to be able to get through that abysmal and overcomplex, failure-prone process.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#223

Post by ceejayoz »

screwturner68 wrote: post #94
ralusek wrote: post #21

Being a police officer is a privilege. The population grants you the authority to detain us, accuse us, and even kill us. Few professions should be subject to higher scrutiny.

They hold a public trust like judges (and in theory politicians) and because of this they need to be held to the highest standards and not the lowest standards (which is what we do now). In my opinion a cop breaking the law is much more egregious than a civilian breaking the same law because the cop betrayed the public trust.

> In my opinion a cop breaking the law is much more egregious than a civilian breaking the same law because the cop betrayed the public trust.

Yes. It should be an aggravating circumstance in charging/sentencing akin to hate crime enhancements.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#224

Post by moretrashplz »

nathan_compton wrote: post #216
moretrashplz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So you are saying that laws prohibiting discrimination against trans people are somehow woke tyranny? These lays basically just say that you can't deny someone a job or a house or similar services for being trans. They do not say that you have to "believe" in a persons gender identity. No one is marching you to re-education camps if you don't use the right pronouns. Conservative rhetoric on this subject is so detache…

[flagged]

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#225

Post by OGWhales »

dcow wrote: post #208
OGWhales wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops have always been triggered by the mildest of disrespect, this has nothing to do with people worrying about social micro-aggressions. What’s actually happening is that cops are being filmed and because of that people are losing respect for them faster than ever and the cops hate it and want to do anything they can to prevent people from disrespecting them.

SJWs have always been triggered by the mildest of disrespect, which is why we’re here in the first place.

Frankly speaking, it’s impossible for me to take the claim that this is the result of SJWs seriously. It’s just too ridiculous.

I think the growing discontent against cops due to their being filmed is a much more reasonable explanation for these kinds of laws. That’s why we are also seeing attempts to restrict people’s ability to film police.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#226

Post by ceejayoz »

next_xibalba wrote: post #96
ralusek wrote: post #21

Being a police officer is a privilege. The population grants you the authority to detain us, accuse us, and even kill us. Few professions should be subject to higher scrutiny.

I find this type of overly simplistic claim pretty naive and unhelpful. If you knew any police, you would know it sure doesn't look like a privilege. It is often an unpleasant job. Policing is much more dangerous than the average job, often involves dealing with the mentally ill, intoxicated, people in some form of crisis, people who are just antisocial criminal jerks, etc. It is not very well compensated profession.…

> It is not very well compensated profession.

Not on paper, perhaps. Retiring at 50 with full pension changes the math quite a bit. Especially if they pad that pension...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newyork-pension/public-wo...

"For example, a police officer with a history of zero overtime worked more than 800 hours of overtime in his last years on the job, the Democratic gubernatorial candidate said in a report. The pension benefits that state and local employees qualify for often are partly determined by how much they earn in the last few years at work."

> Police deserve the basic respect we accord to teachers, firefighters, and other vital civil servants.

Citizens deserve the same basic respect from the cops.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#227

Post by Clubber »

kerblang wrote: post #87
Clubber wrote: post #2

Filming police performing their duties is a constitutionally protected activity affirmed by many circuit courts and strongly alluded to by the SCOTUS. >On July 1, an Indiana law went into effect making it a crime to come within 25 feet of an on-duty police officer if ordered to stay back. Legislators in Florida, Louisiana, and New York have produced similar laws. 25 feet isn't very far. In the other states mentioned…

> Sounds like the articles objective is to peddle anger. Just my opinion, but Slate is heavily left-slanted, moreso than Vox. That's not a crime, of course, but I really don't think this kind of echo-chambering is a good fit for HN, even when recognizing HN is quite off-topic-tolerant. Of course people are gonna do what people do anyhow.

>I really don't think this kind of echo-chambering is a good fit for HN

The nice thing about HN is there is a lot of discussion poking holes in any particular narrative. At least we get to hear and consider both sides of an issue rather than the single side most media portrays. I think that's healthy as long as it remains civil, and it mostly is.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#228

Post by sangnoir »

idiotsecant wrote: post #214
sangnoir wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about: It's harder to kill anyone (and get away with it) as a citizen anywhere in the US than it is as a cop Some cops have bloodlust and/or are in cop-gangs that have initiation-rituals that demand commiting murder before you can join.

Probably more true, although I had to parse this sentence several times to understand what you were trying to say. We put a lot of trust in cops. It's probably unavoidable that some of them will turn out to be terrible people. I am in favor of trying to keep that ratio as low as possible but I don't have any particularly good solutions on how to do that. Do you?

I have a couple of suggestions I've heard from others I think are decent.

1. Grand-jury-style civilian oversight of cop malpractice.

2. Make sure bad cops can't get reemployed as cops in the city 15 miles away.

3. Require cops get malpractice insurance as a condition of employment. Instead of paying out of the city's treasury, insurance will payout if the cop gets sued successfully

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#229

Post by Clubber »

mrangle wrote: post #161
ceejayoz wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ones who pay the most are LE. This is simply not true. Cops die via gunfire in sub-100 numbers annually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_office...

As with crime statistics, you need percentages to make a point and not aggregate numbers. Also tell us which other professionals are murdered by guns on American streets for doing their jobs, at this rate.

>Also tell us which other professionals are murdered by guns on American streets for doing their jobs, at this rate.

Cab drivers are #1 last time I looked. Pizza delivery close. Cops didn't even make the top 10.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#230

Post by giraffe_lady »

moretrashplz wrote: post #220
giraffe_lady wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the most egregious cases of police violence, the people who value their right to own & carry weapons are a strong base of police support. There is actually nothing contradictory about either set of positions though. Guns don't protect you from cops. Guns are power and violence, and who we consider to have rightful access to it. So are police.

An armed citizenry has acted as a deterrent to tyrannical governments and nation states for as long as the two have co-existed. I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. And no, "we" don't get to consider who has lawful or rightful access to firearms - unless you got to vote for the last class of police cadets at your local precinct.

That something has often been true in the past doesn't mean it always will be. These are trends not natural laws.

There is a clear development for at least 20 years in the US of more policing, more police surveillance, more sense of a right or prerogative of police to make their own decisions about violence without oversight or consequence.

These changes are for the most part supported by the people who self-identify as enthusiastic gun owners, or people who value their right to own and carry guns. I don't want to try to guess what constraints you may have on the definition of tyrannical here, but this confluence of forces is a negative for the material expression of rights.

What you can do on paper isn't very important when someone can shoot you for doing it and get away with that. That someone may be a cop in some cirumstances and they may be a lawful gun owner in others. This makes them natural allies in many political contexts because of that simple fact.

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