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FedNow Is Live

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#81

Post by bl4kers »

delfinom wrote: post #19
kak3a wrote: post #16

why? don't we already have Zelle and Venmo that does just that?

Zelle is closed to the few banks that partner with the private banks that run it. Venmo is a private company that siphons your data for sale. FedNow is a long-term replacement of ACH, which the Fed Reserve banks already run. This system is open to all US financial entities. The platform also uses a ISO standard https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/prepar...

Zelle has been a nightmare to use. Apparently they rolled out a major update that caused many financial institutions to drop support. Because of that, my phone number is now unusable/blocklisted in their system because it's in a limbo state that neither Zelle nor my bank can fix

Re: FedNow Is Live

#82

Post by scottiebarnes »

kemotep wrote: post #64
lockhouse wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory you spending it would reset the expiration date. If you know your money will expire you will spend it, thus stimulating the economy. We also can’t have the dirty proles save their way to a higher social class.

Where are these theories of how a hypothetical future CBDC come from? Is there an official announcement from the Federal Reserve about how they would like it to work? A committee hearing in Congress where this is discussed?

The theories come from concerned critics mostly. As far as I know there has been no discussion as to how the government might influence the functionality of a CBDC.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#83

Post by Mortiffer »

Amazing news. Kinda sad to see that Stripe was not on the list of early adopters but I'm sure they will implement it soon.

In Switzerland we build an awesome eBill system ontop of the equivalent thing to FedNow. Its all run by Six Group which is the biggest Stock Exchange but it is jointly owned by the big banks and government. So they all agreed to add this eBilling system. Its so much superior to having paper come in the mail all the time.

So much is possible once you have instantly confirming transactions supported by all banks. Suppliers can assume all possible customers have a bank account that can do this in contrast to the crazy world of sending paper checks by mail.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#84

Post by rvz »

ragnot wrote: post #10

I'm glad the US is finally catching up the rest of the world...India already has the Unified Payments Interface (UPI) [0]. Additionally, I think fears of this turning into a CBDC are overblown. Banks already have to settle transactions between banks through reserve transfers via the Fed...this will just help automate that process so we can send money from bank account to bank account. Like a Zelle or Venmo, but gover…

> India already has the Unified Payments Interface (UPI) [0]. Additionally, I think fears of this turning into a CBDC are overblown.

Yet, India is already working on E-RUPI [0] which is a CBDC on top of UPI by the Reserve Bank of India, also shown in the same Wikipedia link you just used. Eventually, FedNow will just be the rails for a US dollar CBDC.

The next time a protest happens in India after their government does something extremely unpopular, you'll see why CBDCs are a nightmare not to be ignored. This is why governments around the world are working with many central banks with pilot schemes to test them out and eventually roll their own.

> Like a Zelle or Venmo, but government backed!

Look where that went for Zelle. [1] A vehicle for rampant fraud on the system.

[0] https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/what-is-e-rupi-d...

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/business/payments-fraud-z...

Re: FedNow Is Live

#85

Post by idiotsecant »

jrockway wrote: post #39
landemva wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me question why we allow government to be in charge of our money, and the price of money (interest rate meddling by govt contractor federalreserve). I suppose we grow up with it and don't question it.

The Federal Reserve sets the interest rate that it loans money at. You are free to loan money to anyone at a lower rate if you wish.

I mean, that is true in the same way that if I want to create some shrutebucks and loan them out at the schrute reserve rate you are also free to loan out shrutebucks at whatever rate you want.

The fed may have a small advantage you are willfully overlooking.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#86

Post by jkeisling »

WeylandYutani wrote: post #45
solardev wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see government IDs be available as a form of auth on the internet. It would open up the possibility of real-person communities with fewer bots and trolls. Similarly with digital payments, I'd much rather trust the government with that than some rando cryptobro of the week. There is nothing extreme about this. The government already does both functions in the analog world. It's about time they caught u…

I agree I'm more concerned about Silicon valley tech bros than my own government. I can vote for Parliament I can't vote for PayPal's board of directors.

Governments are far harder to remove than tech firms. You may be able to ditch Google, but there's only one government in your country. And "democracy" doesn't prevent state surveillance.

Most politicians back it, so voting differently makes little difference. Labour and the Conservatives support the Online Safety Bill, the Patriot Act was bipartisan, and voters have very little control over the EU and can’t stop Chat Control. And most of “government” isn’t directly elected: you can’t vote out the NSA, and Congress has little power over them either. The government blunts corporate abuses but doesn’t stop them: revolving doors ensure authorities target small fry while big companies like Visa keep going unimpeded. And finally, most voters don’t mind surveillance that much, since government and media manufacture consent for it. Don’t count on ordinary people to “vote it out” until it’s too late.

Lobbying against government surveillance helps marginally, but it's an eternal struggle. Governments take as much power as they can get, while abuses are exponentially harder to detect and stop than refusing to grant that power in the first place. The “slippery slope” isn’t a fallacy, it’s the record of the last twenty years. Don’t let them track speech and money with a central ID and digital currency, just because you don’t like a few tech bros or online trolls.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#87

Post by sidpatil »

djfobbz wrote: post #17
lavp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it about CBDCs you find concerning compared to cash?

For one, unlike cash, the issuing entity can program CBDC to expire on a specific date unless utilized. Another horror use case is that they could track and limit how many hamburgers or pizzas you eat daily, weekly, monthly or yearly!

> For one, unlike cash, the issuing entity can program CBDC to expire on a specific date unless utilized.

The idea isn't new.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Gesell

Re: FedNow Is Live

#88

Post by geodel »

lockhouse wrote: post #56
Analemma_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FedNow is a replacement for ACH which is an ancient, creaking monstrosity. If we can't ever replace or fix old, busted infrastructure because of conspiratorial rambling, we are fucked as a civilization.

I’ve seen a lot of crazy conspiracy theories reveal themselves to be true in the past five years. Apply some critical thinking on this. Governments and corporate elites worldwide are salivating over the level of surveillance and control that a CBDC will enable.

And by not availing convenience of FedNow, one can stop government in tracks.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#89

Post by niam »

solardev wrote: post #7
EGreg wrote: post #5

Here we go. CBDCs are next, and also national Digital IDs. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uwRSzNTp2ko Real ID + needing it to browse anything on the Internet: https://community.qbix.com/t/the-coming-war-on-end-to-end-en... From what I see people on HN writing, by and large they downplay the risks of these as well as AI. Or alternately seem to suggest that CBDCs and national IDs are not coming, and that it’s a conspira…

I would love to see government IDs be available as a form of auth on the internet. It would open up the possibility of real-person communities with fewer bots and trolls. Similarly with digital payments, I'd much rather trust the government with that than some rando cryptobro of the week. There is nothing extreme about this. The government already does both functions in the analog world. It's about time they caught u…

I don't trust the govt quite as much as you, but could see this being a useful govt function if the issuing body didn't maintain any record of when, where, or why an ID was used--and only acted to verify the authenticity of an ID.
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