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FedNow Is Live

federalreserve.gov

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#41

Post by staringback »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #32
skybrian wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India’s system is more usable, though, apparently. This seems like an improvement but it doesn’t do the same thing? > Because UPI is designed to be intermediated by computers rather than by humans, transactional information gets captured by the payments company while the transaction is in progress, and that can tell the clerk (or cron job) that the payment succeeded without them needing access to the bank account. >…

Reward schemes are funded by interchange fees funded by higher product prices. They are a tax on the entire economy. Merchants can push the CC fees to customers who opt to pay with CCs vs cheap or free instant payment systems. T-Mobile has dropped autopay discounts if you use a credit card vs deposit/bank accounts for payment, for example. Walmart wrote public comments on this topic supporting the FedNow implementati…

My Citi Custom Cash card gives me 5% back on gas station purchases (my highest category), even paying the higher price at the pump for credit cards I still come out ahead. I'm fairly certain Citi is not making 5% on interchange fees

Re: FedNow Is Live

#42

Post by delfinom »

mistrial9 wrote: post #25
delfinom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National IDs in the US are never coming because the evangelical base of the GOP literally oppose it for being the "mark of the beast". >Here we go. CBDCs are next, and also national Digital IDs No, this is a long term replacement for ACH, a function that the Federal Reserve was already carrying out.

nothing about singling out people for various reasons and depriving them of basic services? read history much?

They don't need a national id to do that. Lmao

Case in point, the no fly lists, they literally don't care if they just ban all the John Smiths.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#43

Post by oaththrowaway »

kemotep wrote: post #38
djfobbz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, unlike cash, the issuing entity can program CBDC to expire on a specific date unless utilized. Another horror use case is that they could track and limit how many hamburgers or pizzas you eat daily, weekly, monthly or yearly!

Why would the government program money to expire? Would the money not become effectively worthless the closer to the expiration date? Why would a business accept transactions from people with money that’s about to expire would that then mean they would be giving away goods and services for free potentially?

I assume that the TTL of the money would reset once it has changed hands

Re: FedNow Is Live

#44

Post by codyb »

lockhouse wrote: post #3

My concern is that this is a trial run for an official CBDC that will eventually replace cash.

I wouldn't worry too much about replacing the US Dollar entirely. We're pretty slow even to get rid of the penny. The US Dollar has a _lot_ of fans, I'm certainly one of them.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#45

Post by WeylandYutani »

solardev wrote: post #7
EGreg wrote: post #5

Here we go. CBDCs are next, and also national Digital IDs. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uwRSzNTp2ko Real ID + needing it to browse anything on the Internet: https://community.qbix.com/t/the-coming-war-on-end-to-end-en... From what I see people on HN writing, by and large they downplay the risks of these as well as AI. Or alternately seem to suggest that CBDCs and national IDs are not coming, and that it’s a conspira…

I would love to see government IDs be available as a form of auth on the internet. It would open up the possibility of real-person communities with fewer bots and trolls. Similarly with digital payments, I'd much rather trust the government with that than some rando cryptobro of the week. There is nothing extreme about this. The government already does both functions in the analog world. It's about time they caught u…

I agree I'm more concerned about Silicon valley tech bros than my own government.

I can vote for Parliament I can't vote for PayPal's board of directors.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#46

Post by lisper »

iudqnolq wrote: post #20
lisper wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this akin to government-backed Venmo, or something? Yes, exactly. But you have to keep in mind that this is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, it's going to be convenient and probably secure. On the other hand, it's going to let the government see every transaction you make, which for some people will be a very high price to pay.

> On the other hand, it's going to let the government see every transaction you make Can you go into more detail here on what you think will change from the status quo? Existing bank transfers are obviously not secret from the government on request. While the government doesn't have direct access to run search heuristics on the whole dataset they just delegate that to the banks' internal compliance team.

The magnitude of the change is somewhat in the eye of the beholder. On the one hand, the government already has a lot of visibility into your finances. On the other hand, this removes some friction that currently exists for certain kinds of transactions. This matters more to some people than others. There is also concern that this might be a step towards the eventual elimination of cash.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#47

Post by lockhouse »

kemotep wrote: post #38
djfobbz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, unlike cash, the issuing entity can program CBDC to expire on a specific date unless utilized. Another horror use case is that they could track and limit how many hamburgers or pizzas you eat daily, weekly, monthly or yearly!

Why would the government program money to expire? Would the money not become effectively worthless the closer to the expiration date? Why would a business accept transactions from people with money that’s about to expire would that then mean they would be giving away goods and services for free potentially?

In theory you spending it would reset the expiration date.

If you know your money will expire you will spend it, thus stimulating the economy. We also can’t have the dirty proles save their way to a higher social class.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#48

Post by drivebyhooting »

WeylandYutani wrote: post #45
solardev wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see government IDs be available as a form of auth on the internet. It would open up the possibility of real-person communities with fewer bots and trolls. Similarly with digital payments, I'd much rather trust the government with that than some rando cryptobro of the week. There is nothing extreme about this. The government already does both functions in the analog world. It's about time they caught u…

I agree I'm more concerned about Silicon valley tech bros than my own government. I can vote for Parliament I can't vote for PayPal's board of directors.

PayPal doesn’t have a military and doesn’t extract taxes from you though.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#49

Post by seneca »

mzg wrote: post #28
mistrial9 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nothing about singling out people for various reasons and depriving them of basic services? read history much?

The government already has the power to do this — just ask any trans person in the South

> The government already has the power to do this — just ask any trans person in the South

Any citations on every trans person in the South being singled out for denial of services by the government? Because that sounds like inflammatory nonsense.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#50

Post by iudqnolq »

caseysoftware wrote: post #34
iudqnolq wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, it's going to let the government see every transaction you make Can you go into more detail here on what you think will change from the status quo? Existing bank transfers are obviously not secret from the government on request. While the government doesn't have direct access to run search heuristics on the whole dataset they just delegate that to the banks' internal compliance team.

If the government wants to tax these transactions - and let's admit it, they do - they'll take it right off the top. Unlike with the banking system where different banks have different prices for wires - or even free under certain conditions - you can't "shop around" for a new government. Further, if a government determines you are not an "acceptable" participant, they have the ability to stop transactions to/from yo…

> If the government wants to tax these transactions - and let's admit it, they do - they'll take it right off the top.

If the federal government wants to tax things they indeed can. But I was asking about a chance from the status quo.

If you owe the US government money right now they can take it out of your bank account.

> Unlike with the banking system where different banks have different prices for wires - or even free under certain conditions - you can't "shop around" for a new government.

You can shop around for a different bank but it will still follow US law and also go above and beyond to help out the feds.

> Further, if a government determines you are not an "acceptable" participant, they have the ability to stop transactions to/from you.

Yes, but this already exists. https://ofac.treasury.gov/specially-designated-nationals-and...

> *Ability doesn't necessarily translate to authority - you can probably fight it - but the government's legal fees are paid by us so they're effectively unlimited.

Yes but your legal remedies might actually be better under FedWire. US fourth amendment law has a massive loophole whereby if a private business "voluntarily" assists the government it doesn't count as a search. So if the government searches your government bank account you'll have potentially better remedies than if they ask your private bank to pretty please send a printout. (and there's very little chance your current bank tells the feds to shove off and come back with a warrant in that kind of situation)

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