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New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

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Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#91

Post by mrangle »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17
b112 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it wasn't a smirk, now was it? It was a smirk and other things. Right or wrong, call it what it is. Don't drop info off the event, and focus on one part of it. And if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street? Note, I said "doing their job", not "doing it wrong". For damned sure there are bad cops. But by god, there are a l…

> if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street Please show precedent for anyone being prosecuted for rendering an “intimidating smirk” in any other context. Or filming someone working in public.

They're being prosecuted for smirking at cops while destroying pro-cop signage, which can be read as assault. Ask yourself whether in today's age someone could get away with destroying an LGBT sign amidst a pro-LGBT protest, while staring down LGBT people, and get away with it. I don't agree with where the standards are, but most people would observe that this is the standard. Whatever anyone's personal rationalization for preferencing one group over another, in this type of enforcement, it is immaterial as far as the criminal code is concerned. There are no marginalized group allowances for assault.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#92

Post by rootusrootus »

costanzaDynasty wrote: post #80

I've always thought hate crime laws are so misguided. It's just another law to use against people you don't like. Piling on charges for no other reason other than making you feel good. Do you like the perp? No: Hate crime Yes: The brain isn't fully formed yet I worked on the low end of a giant corporation and they would always add new rules, seemingly targeting people they we trying to fire. Stupid rules like you can…

What's the difference between first degree murder and second degree murder? Is that any different than a hate crime designation?

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#93

Post by ceejayoz »

Supermancho wrote: post #73
bamfly wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure how someone wearing body armor and carrying multiple weapons that can incapacitate or kill someone can be intimidated by a smile. They're wannabe military tough-guys with laughably worse training and culture, much of which tells them they should be pee-pants scared all the time (seriously—folks very-successfully sell some wacko training courses to cops; or, just look at the disconnected-from-reality-an…

> they should be pee-pants scared all the time Not to step out and defend cops too much but this narrative is unfair...I believe the right to bear arms includes guns and we pay for that as a society. The ones who pay the most are LE. They primarily have to deal with the worst elements of society and the most volatile of individuals. I don't envy the job. I would be scared all the time too. Chances of me being shot at…

> The ones who pay the most are LE.

This is simply not true. Cops die via gunfire in sub-100 numbers annually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_office...

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#94

Post by screwturner68 »

ralusek wrote: post #21

Being a police officer is a privilege. The population grants you the authority to detain us, accuse us, and even kill us. Few professions should be subject to higher scrutiny.

They hold a public trust like judges (and in theory politicians) and because of this they need to be held to the highest standards and not the lowest standards (which is what we do now). In my opinion a cop breaking the law is much more egregious than a civilian breaking the same law because the cop betrayed the public trust.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#95

Post by minitoar »

mitt_romney_12 wrote: post #53
Clubber wrote: post #2

Filming police performing their duties is a constitutionally protected activity affirmed by many circuit courts and strongly alluded to by the SCOTUS. >On July 1, an Indiana law went into effect making it a crime to come within 25 feet of an on-duty police officer if ordered to stay back. Legislators in Florida, Louisiana, and New York have produced similar laws. 25 feet isn't very far. In the other states mentioned…

>25 feet isn't very far. In the other states mentioned I believe it's 10 feet, which is reasonable The 25 ft buffer means that while people aren't prevented from recording an arrest, they are prevented from making a recording that would actually show anything. Like the article says "They create a visual and auditory buffer likely to produce reasonable doubt in the courtroom. Is the officer’s knee on the suspect’s sho…

But like all laws applying a heuristic to technology it will rapidly become outdated.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#96

Post by next_xibalba »

ralusek wrote: post #21

Being a police officer is a privilege. The population grants you the authority to detain us, accuse us, and even kill us. Few professions should be subject to higher scrutiny.

I find this type of overly simplistic claim pretty naive and unhelpful.

If you knew any police, you would know it sure doesn't look like a privilege. It is often an unpleasant job. Policing is much more dangerous than the average job, often involves dealing with the mentally ill, intoxicated, people in some form of crisis, people who are just antisocial criminal jerks, etc. It is not very well compensated profession. Society cannot function without laws and enforcement of laws. Police deserve the basic respect we accord to teachers, firefighters, and other vital civil servants.

If you want to solve a problem, it is first useful to gain an accurate understanding of the current state.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#97

Post by zapataband1 »

Supermancho wrote: post #73
bamfly wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure how someone wearing body armor and carrying multiple weapons that can incapacitate or kill someone can be intimidated by a smile. They're wannabe military tough-guys with laughably worse training and culture, much of which tells them they should be pee-pants scared all the time (seriously—folks very-successfully sell some wacko training courses to cops; or, just look at the disconnected-from-reality-an…

> they should be pee-pants scared all the time Not to step out and defend cops too much but this narrative is unfair...I believe the right to bear arms includes guns and we pay for that as a society. The ones who pay the most are LE. They primarily have to deal with the worst elements of society and the most volatile of individuals. I don't envy the job. I would be scared all the time too. Chances of me being shot at…

You are statistically more likely to die on the job as a delivery driver than a cop.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#99

Post by cratermoon »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #4

> "Many states have passed hate-speech laws that protect the police from verbal or symbolic abuse, such as stomping on a “Back the Blue” sign while “smirking in an intimidating manner” (the crime for which a woman in Utah was prosecuted)." Wow... this is just... The police have a monopoly on the legalized use of violence. Police carry at minimum one deadly weapon (a handgun), but usually have multiple so-called less-…

That's nothing. Just whisper "fentanyl" and see the cops scurry away like roaches when you turn on the kitchen light.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#100

Post by rootusrootus »

harimau777 wrote: post #48
mrangle wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone doesn't get treated like shit. Most people respect and want cops. People whining about cops being mean to them, and their general dispositions, tends to think that their police interaction is a super special customer service experience and that the system is faulty when it falls short of their expectations. The reality is that cops deal with the worst of society multiple times per day, even if you don't repr…

Of course the majority respect cops. It's generally the minority that they abuse.

And very frequently, the cops in question are minorities themselves.
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