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New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

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Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#41

Post by toolz »

chmod600 wrote: post #31

A law about staying back when a police officer asks doesn’t seem like the most terrible rights violation. It’s like virtual yellow police tape. One way to look at this is that it clarifies how far you need to stand back. 25 feet is slightly far, maybe it should be 15 feet instead?

I agree it doesn't sound so bad, but from another perspective: why should a cop be given the authority to demand a law abiding citizen move 25ft for any reason?

That's just unchecked power waiting to be abused and there's simply no reason cops have given the public to believe they won't abuse power frequently, if given the opportunity.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#42

Post by [deleted] »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #18
b112 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it wasn't a smirk, now was it? It was a smirk and other things. Right or wrong, call it what it is. Don't drop info off the event, and focus on one part of it. And if someone has a right not to be harassed, when doing their job in an office, why doesn't a cop, when doing their job on the street? Note, I said "doing their job", not "doing it wrong". For damned sure there are bad cops. But by god, there are a l…

Thanks to your comment I read through to the original article and it’s even more despicable than I’d thought from the description. She’s being accused of a “hate crime” for “intimidating the police” based on defacing a sign. It’s the most disgusting thing I’ve ever heard of, and I have no idea why any rational human being would defend it.

[deleted]

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#43

Post by kodah »

chmod600 wrote: post #31

A law about staying back when a police officer asks doesn’t seem like the most terrible rights violation. It’s like virtual yellow police tape. One way to look at this is that it clarifies how far you need to stand back. 25 feet is slightly far, maybe it should be 15 feet instead?

10-25 feet seems reasonable with 25 being the upper bound of reasonability. The average person can move 9-12ft/s in a single direction; starting speed would be slower so generous is 5-6ft/s. 2 seconds worth of distance sounds reasonable to keep everyone safe.

As others have pointed out the issue likely isn't the distance. It's that police can enforce their own measures here without accountability.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#44

Post by enragedcacti »

zdragnar wrote: post #28
matthewdgreen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks to your comment I read through to the original article and it’s even more despicable than I’d thought from the description. She’s being accused of a “hate crime” for “intimidating the police” based on defacing a sign. It’s the most disgusting thing I’ve ever heard of, and I have no idea why any rational human being would defend it.

Several people have been charged with hate crimes for spinning their car tires over rainbow painted sidewalks, even though nobody else was present. Hate crime is a fucking stupid term; a crime is a crime is a crime. That said, if targeting one group deserves special treatment, then targeting any group should get the same. Equal application of the law, y'know?

Protected classes are part of the law and "Cop" is not one of them. Treating cops the same as minority groups would be ignorance of the law, not equal application of it.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#45

Post by tppiotrowski »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #4

> "Many states have passed hate-speech laws that protect the police from verbal or symbolic abuse, such as stomping on a “Back the Blue” sign while “smirking in an intimidating manner” (the crime for which a woman in Utah was prosecuted)." Wow... this is just... The police have a monopoly on the legalized use of violence. Police carry at minimum one deadly weapon (a handgun), but usually have multiple so-called less-…

> The police have a monopoly on the legalized use of violence.

Is this true? I thought killing for self defense is legal.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#46

Post by JumpCrisscross »

AlexandrB wrote: post #30
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fact that some of them disliked being filmed so much just bolsters the case that they need to be filed, IMO Most of us would be furious about being filmed on the job. We just don’t render deadly force.

For many service workers interacting with the public it's already a reality that they get filmed and posted on TikTok/Instagram - especially if an interaction goes wrong.

True. But if you ask them about being filmed, I doubt they love it. Just saying we can’t conclude malfeasance from cops desiring secrecy.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#47

Post by distortionfield »

harimau777 wrote: post #40
chmod600 wrote: post #31

A law about staying back when a police officer asks doesn’t seem like the most terrible rights violation. It’s like virtual yellow police tape. One way to look at this is that it clarifies how far you need to stand back. 25 feet is slightly far, maybe it should be 15 feet instead?

It could be pretty easily abused. For example, a situation where there is less than 25 feet (or even 10 feet) of clearance like a sidewalk. During the height of the BLM protests, local police told protesters to get off of the sidewalks and then arrested/assaulted them for being in the street.

This is exactly how laws like this are intended to be used. They’re entirely about protecting status quo police power and control.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#48

Post by harimau777 »

mrangle wrote: post #39
annoyingnoob wrote: post #27

Police officers are citizens just like everyone else. No one has any expectation of privacy while operating in public. The police are just asking for more people to dislike them. How do you treat everyone like shit, try to take away our rights, and then expect everyone to respect you? Respect is a two-way street.

Everyone doesn't get treated like shit. Most people respect and want cops. People whining about cops being mean to them, and their general dispositions, tends to think that their police interaction is a super special customer service experience and that the system is faulty when it falls short of their expectations. The reality is that cops deal with the worst of society multiple times per day, even if you don't repr…

Of course the majority respect cops. It's generally the minority that they abuse.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#49

Post by chongli »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #9
whoknew1122 wrote: post #4

> "Many states have passed hate-speech laws that protect the police from verbal or symbolic abuse, such as stomping on a “Back the Blue” sign while “smirking in an intimidating manner” (the crime for which a woman in Utah was prosecuted)." Wow... this is just... The police have a monopoly on the legalized use of violence. Police carry at minimum one deadly weapon (a handgun), but usually have multiple so-called less-…

Because some of the people attracted to the power of working as a police officer legitimately need all those weapons and all that body armour to project the power and confidence they just can't implicitly find within themselves. I'm sad for root cause, but society seems to be increasingly paying for symptoms that the powers that be refuse to admit are even present.

It's a vicious cycle. The police develop a reputation for toxic culture. People who might otherwise be attracted to policework for the right sorts of reasons (sense of duty, care for the community, responsibility etc.) become alienated by the toxic culture and are driven away. The people who remain develop warrior / siege mentality and toxicity increases. People who are attracted to policework for the wrong reasons (resentment, desire for power over others, greed) fit in among the other toxic misfits.

It's part of a wider pattern of institutional breakdown and the loss of trust in institutions.

Re: New laws trying to criminalize filming cops

#50

Post by toolz »

mrangle wrote: post #39
annoyingnoob wrote: post #27

Police officers are citizens just like everyone else. No one has any expectation of privacy while operating in public. The police are just asking for more people to dislike them. How do you treat everyone like shit, try to take away our rights, and then expect everyone to respect you? Respect is a two-way street.

Everyone doesn't get treated like shit. Most people respect and want cops. People whining about cops being mean to them, and their general dispositions, tends to think that their police interaction is a super special customer service experience and that the system is faulty when it falls short of their expectations. The reality is that cops deal with the worst of society multiple times per day, even if you don't repr…

I'd say most people want cops, because they hate criminals even more, but even in my conservative groups, no one respects someone for being a cop. It's a shitty job that attracts rough characters.

I want tons of cops, but I don't want to interact with them ever. They are very often just thugs operating within a structured organization to stop thugs operating with no guiding principals.

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