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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#161

Post by withinboredom »

Larrikin wrote: post #117
wintermutestwin wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that too and it is super annoying having family in the UK that will only communicate via Whatsapp. Is this because cell providers outside the US charge for SMS? Even the ones who have iPhones end up using it because it is too much of a pain to use separate messaging apps.

It's because SMS is simply inferior to Whatsapp, Messenger, Instagram, Line, kakaotalk, Snapchat, Signal, etc unless you own an iPhone. All of them are cross platform and aren't intentionally broken for people who don't have or use iMessage. I personally avoid giving out my phone number as much as possible as all the other platforms have much better tools for communication, blocking, media, etc.

To add to that, I can use the WhatsApp desktop app at work. Can’t do that with iMessage.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#162

Post by rejectfinite »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #90
hbn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything that's a bolder move considering everyone uses Whatsapp there and barely anyone uses iMessage

I've noticed that too and it is super annoying having family in the UK that will only communicate via Whatsapp. Is this because cell providers outside the US charge for SMS? Even the ones who have iPhones end up using it because it is too much of a pain to use separate messaging apps.

The opposite is more annoying...

Whatsapp works on PC, Mac, Android and iOS

iMessage only works on Apple devices.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#163

Post by fredley »

huntertwo wrote: post #135

Why do the British still think they have power to do dumb stuff like this? Their economy is floundering, their consumer market is small, and their government is a joke.

In a word, populists. This is part of a stance of being 'tough on crime'. Whether or not the bill succeeds or fails isn't really important, what's important is that they can trumpet how tough on crime they are. If it fails it's not their fault, it's the opposition and how they care more about criminals' rights than your/childrens' safety etc. etc.

As to why the public themselves go for it, the media landscape in the UK is in a pretty bad way at the moment. An enormous amount of power is still wielded by the traditional press - specifically the power to set the national conversation.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#164

Post by smoldesu »

tifik wrote: post #132
tarxvf wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the company can give your data to the government with no recourse available to you and no warrant required from the government.

If they choose to sure, but I dont see what incentive they would have. After all, the post is about a company removing products from a market rather than being subject to a law that would allow the gov to force them to do so.

> but I dont see what incentive they would have.

They are frequently subpoenaed for information, and turn over that data more often than not: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#165

Post by Roark66 »

Doches wrote: post #3
obituary_latte wrote: post #2

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...

Is WhatsApp still requiring access to your phone's address book before it allows you to use it? It did last time I tried it. There is no chance in hell I'm giving it all the phone numbers, emails and names of people that trusted me by giving me their details. At the time I set up a virtual android environment (samsung called it knox) just to setup WhatsApp in a way it couldn't access my phone's address book. It is extremely unethical on Meta's side to continue with this requirement. So I'm dubious every te they're presented as champions of privacy protection.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#166

Post by elishah »

codetrotter wrote: post #100
fennecfoxy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean Apple didn't give two stones about security until it became a marketing/selling point as a counterpoint to the big G.

> Apple didn't give two stones about security until it became a marketing/selling point as a counterpoint to the big G That’s not true. Apple was position itself as being better at security than Microsoft long before Google was selling devices to people. For example: https://youtu.be/VuqZ8AqmLPY

True, but security and privacy are different things. At most, one could say that security is necessary-but-not-sufficient for privacy.

Google is generally excellent at security, but that doesn't change the fact that they're a nightmare for privacy.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#167

Post by InsomniacL »

bnt wrote: post #13

Good, more companies need to fight back crazy UK demands. Blocking MS Activision deal, because they think they are a global superpower.

Why shouldn't the deal be blocked?

Whatever services MS want from Activision they can purchase on an ongoing basis without blocking others like Sony just to block the competition.

Who wants Call of Duty to go xbox only like Halo?

Microsoft is a platform provider, the content creators that use their platform should be free to publish to any platform. Otherwise Microsoft bump the prices and say take it or leave it but you can't get it anywhere else.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#168

Post by ghaff »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #90
hbn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything that's a bolder move considering everyone uses Whatsapp there and barely anyone uses iMessage

I've noticed that too and it is super annoying having family in the UK that will only communicate via Whatsapp. Is this because cell providers outside the US charge for SMS? Even the ones who have iPhones end up using it because it is too much of a pain to use separate messaging apps.

The price of built-in text messaging whether SMS or iMessage (or a combination of the two) largely went to zero for most people in the US texting especially other people in the US by the time other apps gained traction. And services like appointment reminders and verification codes pretty much all use SMS in the US--whatever its potential security vulnerabilities.

So I use 2 or 3 other apps for mostly a few international people I know but basically everyone I know just defaults to SMS/iMessage.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#169

Post by shipscode »

KerrAvon wrote: post #156
laputan_machine wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labour are even more in favour of this than the tories are. Lib Dems, too. No mainstream party in the UK values your privacy.

It’s really astonishing that Joe Biden seems to be generally to the left of the Labour party leadership. By USA standards Biden is a centrist moderate. We had the good sense to eject the Mark Penn “must go right-wing” types from mainstream Democratic circles; why didn’t Labour follow this path too?

You’ve gotta be in a wild echo chamber if you consider Biden centrist moderate.
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