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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#81

Post by ohgodplsno »

wonderwonder wrote: post #63
GoToRO wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are just giving your secrets to a company you can't change instead of a goverment you can elect.

The company doesn't have a hundred thousand armed officers with the ability to arrest / kill me for anything they can claim they found. Government comes equipped with legal violence, the company comes equipped with targeted ads

It's true, they merely have enough cash on hand to fund a small army, enough legal power to crush you in court with anything you attempt.

Make no mistake: if Apple needed to get someone killed, they would. They're not some miraculous pinnacles of good in a sea of evil. It's just that they merely need to flex the law at you to destroy your life forever. Apple is no different, they'll hire the Pinkertons and break your fingers should they find the need to. Carnegie Steel did it, Apple's not above it either.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#83

Post by realusername »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #53
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #40

i simply prefer not to believe anything that any government or any trillion dollar company says about encryption and privacy. Apple: > "We have never heard of PRISM", "We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers" https://web.archive.org/web/20130609061546/https://www.culto... ..some things are just not discussed on public forums.

That could be true? IIRC, PRISM was less about direct access, and more about abusing every potential method of gaining information. For example, imagine a Login page that said, "Password incorrect," versus "User does not exist." If you have "User does not exist," you could use that to figure out whether a given email address has an account with a service. That could be useful information to PRISM when looking for a t…

> That could be true? IIRC, PRISM was less about direct access, and more about abusing every potential method of gaining information.

Direct access to the data was mentioned in the Guardian and other newspapers

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#84

Post by tiltowait »

cj wrote: post #11

> Apple previously withdrew plans for its own CSAM-scanning feature for iCloud Photos, following pushback from customers and human rights groups. Apple’s solution was more privacy-preserving than what is now proposed by the UK government. Preface: I don't have an opinion on one side or the other. Question: what were the arguments lobbied against apple that caused them to withdraw? Also, is CSAM the motivating factor…

One common argument was that bad state actors would get non-CSAM, but still "undesirable" (as defined by the state), material into the database and use it to target dissidents, badthink, etc.

(Personally, I think this was an overblown risk, since the plan was for the images to first be reviewed by Apple before being sent to the authorities. Presumably if an Apple employee/contractor saw a photo of, say, Tank Man, they wouldn't pass it on. But it's reasonable to be concerned.)

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#85

Post by inopinatus »

edandersen wrote: post #18

Are iMessage and Facetime disabled in China?

Kinda apropos, I’ve used international data roaming in mainland China and was (initially) astonished to find it totally bypassed the GFW and I could run IPsec and SSH unencumbered, none of the unabashed MITM fuckery I saw from using strong crypto over Chinese hotel wifi for more than a couple of seconds. That was a few years ago, I don’t know where their interception regime is at today, but it was a reminder that propaganda begins at home.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#86

Post by epcoa »

decentsafety wrote: post #51
jmclnx wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well here is something for you to read, if you are a Chinese Citizen living in China, then these messages can be seen by the Government because iCloud data must be stored in China. https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/cskufy/imessage_encryp...

I was looking around to see what china has access to after seeing this post... However, people mention their messages can only be visible if icloud backups are enabled? Seems risky to trust either way.

People should read actual documentation and expert or academic writing rather than a bunch of terminally online nerds on Reddit. I’ve seen nothing credible that the E2E for iMessage and FaceTime isn’t as advertised. If you backup to the cloud you’re electing to disclose your data outside the boundaries of encryption.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#87

Post by fennecfoxy »

frankfrank13 wrote: post #6
Doches wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...

I think Meta _needs_ WhatsApp to be their loss-leader (not really, but you know) when it comes to security. They always get to say "oh but WhatsApp is E2E!! We do care about security!"

I mean Apple didn't give two stones about security until it became a marketing/selling point as a counterpoint to the big G.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#88

Post by dagmx »

nani8ot wrote: post #67
dagmx wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Meta threatened to boycott? I know Signal has, and now Apple. However my searches for Meta/WhatsApp seem to show that there’s been contention over their introduction of E2E but they haven’t actually threatened to pull out over it. That said, I’d be very happy to see that they did threaten a boycott as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/09/whatsapp-... Meta: > Some countries have chosen to block it [WhatsApp]: that’s the reality of shipping a secure product. We’ve recently been blocked in Iran, for example. But we’ve never seen a liberal democracy do that. They said they won't comply. UK would have to simply block WhatsApp.

Thanks. Hopefully they continue to stick to their guns.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#89

Post by [deleted] »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #76
obituary_latte wrote: post #2

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

>Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden @dang Is there any way I can counter-argument this statement without it getting flagged? If so, please let me know how. Because so far I have failed and I don't know what rule I broke by countering this statement.

[deleted]

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#90

Post by wintermutestwin »

hbn wrote: post #5
Doches wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...

If anything that's a bolder move considering everyone uses Whatsapp there and barely anyone uses iMessage

I've noticed that too and it is super annoying having family in the UK that will only communicate via Whatsapp. Is this because cell providers outside the US charge for SMS? Even the ones who have iPhones end up using it because it is too much of a pain to use separate messaging apps.
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