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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

9to5mac.com

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#71

Post by aqme28 »

Doches wrote: post #3
obituary_latte wrote: post #2

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...

Interesting. I was going to say that many people use WhatsApp anyways, so if both of them go down that might actually lead to some pushback against these regulations.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#72

Post by throwbadubadu »

GoToRO wrote: post #44
obituary_latte wrote: post #2

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

You are just giving your secrets to a company you can't change instead of a goverment you can elect.

Sure thing, goes quick, and never changes, and works everywhere :)

The power a government has over you is likely also potentially the same as a company?

And lastly it is wrong, if the apps do E2E right (but I have no clue about that) you don't give them a secret at all?

You also cannot change one company, but you can change companies usually better than governments ;)

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#73

Post by konschubert »

graypegg wrote: post #8

I do like how Apple has backed themselves into a consumer-protecting hole here. I’m sure they would love to have access to that much conversational data themselves, of which no other company has access to. If Siri ever improves too significantly I’ll get nervous.

Companies like money. You can’t eat data, you need a machine that can turn it into money.

Facebook uses user data to target ads. Apple doesn’t do this, so they don’t need the data.

If Siri gets better, it’s because Apple have switched it to a better LLM, not because Apple started sucking up magic data dust.

I’m pretty sure that Siri can already read your messages, that’s the point, it’s a speech interface that runs in your phone.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#74

Post by alephnerd »

cj wrote: post #11

> Apple previously withdrew plans for its own CSAM-scanning feature for iCloud Photos, following pushback from customers and human rights groups. Apple’s solution was more privacy-preserving than what is now proposed by the UK government. Preface: I don't have an opinion on one side or the other. Question: what were the arguments lobbied against apple that caused them to withdraw? Also, is CSAM the motivating factor…

> Also, is CSAM the motivating factor for UK or do they want backdoor for more general national security surveillance

Baroness Beeban Kidron has been lobbying for stringent anti-CSAM measures in tech for years [0]. She's lead a major pressure campaign in the US, Canada, and the UK for years [1]. Her charity 5Rights and WeProtect both have been able to back Labour and the Tories so she's able to lobby across the aisles.

It doesn't hurt that the publishing company her parents founded (Pluto Press) has a strong niche in the political space.

The Molly Russell suicide also played a role [2], which she leveraged to highlight the need for restrictive anti-CSAM measures, especially as it became a top tabloid story in the UK.

[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeban_Kidron

[1] - https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/14/british-baroness-on...

[2] - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/01/business/instagram-suicid...

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#75

Post by detourdog »

cj wrote: post #11

> Apple previously withdrew plans for its own CSAM-scanning feature for iCloud Photos, following pushback from customers and human rights groups. Apple’s solution was more privacy-preserving than what is now proposed by the UK government. Preface: I don't have an opinion on one side or the other. Question: what were the arguments lobbied against apple that caused them to withdraw? Also, is CSAM the motivating factor…

I think it was a preemptive attempt by Apple to avoid the current situation. They looked at the what was supported by 4th Amendment and designed a technical system that was the best compromise of no access and the ability to search for known images.

They would rather have maintained the status quo but thought they had hit on something that would work. Since they didn't need to do anything pulling the software was an easy fix to the controversy. The governments are the ones that are pushing this so let them take the heat.

Apple has a working solution and they can just wait and see what happens and react accordingly.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#76

Post by FirmwareBurner »

obituary_latte wrote: post #2

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

>Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden

@dang Is there any way I can counter-argument this statement without it getting flagged? If so, please let me know how.

Because so far I have failed and I don't know what rule I broke by countering this statement.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#77

Post by barbazoo »

obituary_latte wrote: post #2

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

Sounds like their PR works. I bet that's the exact "feeling" they're aiming for.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#78

Post by wonderwonder »

This is a scam by the UK government, they don't care about child abuse, they are going to look into all sorts of communications to leverage people. If they cared about child abuse they would have shut down the open child prostitution rings running rampant. They openly let it continue because they are afraid of being branded racist since the gangs running them are minorities.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploit...

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#79

Post by 13of40 »

blitz_skull wrote: post #39
brucethemoose2 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights Except for right to repair... And software freedom...

Those are not human rights. Privacy, on the other hand, is.

The right to repair is a direct extension of "banging the rocks together" - i.e. toolmaking, the main thing that defines us as humans. How can that not be a human right?

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#80

Post by epcoa »

jmclnx wrote: post #35
epcoa wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are these available with 100% full encryption in China ? If so then they are just blowing wind :( Talk less, read more.

Well here is something for you to read, if you are a Chinese Citizen living in China, then these messages can be seen by the Government because iCloud data must be stored in China. https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/cskufy/imessage_encryp...

Yeah, ok, try harder than a Reddit thread where supposedly authoritative commenters can’t even spell encrypt.

The idiot pmendes is wrong (if he was correct then no one knowledgeable on the subject would classify that system as E2EE - something more to read about). The encryption keys are not managed in iCloud which you can read yourself:

https://support.apple.com/guide/security/how-imessage-sends-...

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/messages/#:~:tex....

iCloud backup is an opt in feature - you use it full well knowing it effectively damages the affordance of E2E regardless of locale if ADP is not available.

“Read more” did not mean social media.

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