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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#51

Post by decentsafety »

jmclnx wrote: post #35
epcoa wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are these available with 100% full encryption in China ? If so then they are just blowing wind :( Talk less, read more.

Well here is something for you to read, if you are a Chinese Citizen living in China, then these messages can be seen by the Government because iCloud data must be stored in China. https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/cskufy/imessage_encryp...

I was looking around to see what china has access to after seeing this post... However, people mention their messages can only be visible if icloud backups are enabled? Seems risky to trust either way.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#53

Post by gjsman-1000 »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #40

i simply prefer not to believe anything that any government or any trillion dollar company says about encryption and privacy. Apple: > "We have never heard of PRISM", "We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers" https://web.archive.org/web/20130609061546/https://www.culto... ..some things are just not discussed on public forums.

That could be true? IIRC, PRISM was less about direct access, and more about abusing every potential method of gaining information.

For example, imagine a Login page that said, "Password incorrect," versus "User does not exist." If you have "User does not exist," you could use that to figure out whether a given email address has an account with a service. That could be useful information to PRISM when looking for a target to subpoena or monitor. (This is also why it's now best practice to just say "Login incorrect" or something vague that doesn't say whether the username, or the password, was wrong.)

Though, I could be wrong, I'd love more info.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#54

Post by nani8ot »

bnt wrote: post #13

Good, more companies need to fight back crazy UK demands. Blocking MS Activision deal, because they think they are a global superpower.

Blocking the MS-ABK deal isn't about being a global superpower, but about MS and ABK doing business in UK. It's the same with EU, Netherlands, Japan and US.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#55

Post by bb101 »

laputan_machine wrote: post #32
bb101 wrote: post #28

The current conservative government is on its last legs before being banished for at least a decade. It appears they already have their eyes on the lucrative private sector and are willing to vandalise the UK with little thought to public protest.

Labour are even more in favour of this than the tories are. Lib Dems, too. No mainstream party in the UK values your privacy.

I can't help but think the other parties would put forward better policies that don't alienate the electorate nor swathes of international business. Some would say the current conservative cabinet are the low-grade remnants of the recent party turmoil, and their policies demonstrate this. Unfortunately for us, they really have nothing to lose over the next year.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#56

Post by HatchedLake721 »

GoToRO wrote: post #44
obituary_latte wrote: post #2

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

You are just giving your secrets to a company you can't change instead of a goverment you can elect.

Ok, I give my secrets to a non-privacy focused company. I still cannot change that company.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#57

Post by can16358p »

GoToRO wrote: post #44
obituary_latte wrote: post #2

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

You are just giving your secrets to a company you can't change instead of a goverment you can elect.

Except that those "elected" governments are already just storefronts of big corps anyway.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#58

Post by sidewndr46 »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #40

i simply prefer not to believe anything that any government or any trillion dollar company says about encryption and privacy. Apple: > "We have never heard of PRISM", "We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers" https://web.archive.org/web/20130609061546/https://www.culto... ..some things are just not discussed on public forums.

As far as "We have never heard of PRISM", that could be true. When you receive a national security letter it isn't like they give you detailed info about the specific operation and why you are receiving it. It's more along the lines of "you're going to do this pursuant to US code section..."

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#59

Post by isykt »

jmclnx wrote: post #35
epcoa wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are these available with 100% full encryption in China ? If so then they are just blowing wind :( Talk less, read more.

Well here is something for you to read, if you are a Chinese Citizen living in China, then these messages can be seen by the Government because iCloud data must be stored in China. https://www.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/cskufy/imessage_encryp...

Can a Chinese person not use iMessage without iCloud? This is possible in the US. In fact, it’s the default.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#60

Post by gjsman-1000 »

tsunamifury wrote: post #49
jessepasley wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. iMessage and Facetime use end-to-end encryption in China, probably among only a few apps allowed to do so.

Keys are managed by the government.

iCloud Keys are managed by a Chinese company, so in practice, yes. iPhone E2E stuff like iMessage, by definition, does not have keys that anyone else (including the government) possess.

Though it hardly matters when ~90% of iPhone users likely have iCloud Backup on. In which case their messages will be backed up to the cloud to where the government could get keys.

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