Live data from Hacker News

Great, Another Bootstrap Site

drawar.com

111–119 of 119 posts

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#111
This runs close to arguments made by TV advertisers, for "creative" and "original" ads that "engage" the watcher and produce a "holistic emotional experience", who are more interested in scoring at Cannes than selling product.

Not everyone goes to a website and bemoans yet another instance of Helvetica. Hell, most people couldn't identify Comic Sans if their lives depended on it. When I go to a site I want to get the information I want and do what I need to do quickly. In and out. If they're using a readable font, familiar icons, and common colours, per se, I don't care about originality.

It make sense for designers to see those things. It also makes sense for designers to be offended by the notion that Bootstrap may automate some of what they do. But extending this to Bootstrap == evil isn't rational.

Caveat: there are some sites that need to delight you. Content sites, e.g. NY Times, Facebook, etc., should put higher value on branding through UI. But inducing that this is necessary for all sites isn't tenable.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#112
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't care if your app / site leaves an impression? It's not just the user flow, it's also emotional - design is holistic.

For some things I really don't. Think internal tooling and such.

I don't think the OP is really talking about internal tooling, but rather the wider web.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#113
Bootstrap does one very important thing. It raises the previously very, very low bar of a poorly designed website. Exceptional designers will always be exceptional designers; poor designers (engineers? :P) now have a tool to put them on an even (I use this term VERY loosely, put away the pitchforks) playing field.

So what if it's another bootstrap site? At least it's not some times new roman on a green background monstrosity.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#114
Thanks for putting down Ruby on Rails developers everywhere. Comparing a DESIGN framework to an actual web framework, with much more actually to it is nonsensical.

Beginners sure can use Rails. So can the experience programmer. The budding Rails developer still needs to learn concepts and programming skills to create his/her application. The use of a framework doesn't imply a programmer using it learns nothing.

Now which is more likely? Someone creating a well programmed, secure website from scratch to "learn how to program", or to use a well tested, and proven framework?

People don't use Rails to simply "learn how to program". You are completely missing this.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#115

I think this post is ridiculous. You know how many great law firms have website themes from the 90s? How many great restaurants have that crappy flash intro? Lots of them and I'm still going to use their service regardless. "How depressing is it to go through this gallery of sites built with Bootstrap?" How depressing is it to go to some site that's been hyped up, see a great design, and then see no compelling produc…

You may not be swayed by the design of sites but the majority of people are. A big mistake people make when approaching design is thinking their attitudes apply to "most people". It takes training and experience to really get a feel for how "the average person" will react to something.

The "average" person is confused by things that are new and different. Making them learn a thousand different UIs just so "designers" can show off their artistic inabilities is one of the worst crimes perpetrated by the web.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#116
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't care if your app / site leaves an impression? It's not just the user flow, it's also emotional - design is holistic.

For some things I really don't. Think internal tooling and such.

Even internal tooling should be nice to use.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#117

Bootstrap gives us a sane, standard look and feel for the web, which is a good thing. The design community generally doesn't like the idea of standards because they are a creative community, and there is no more damning phrase in the creative communities of the modern era than "unoriginal". But unoriginal is exactly what most people want with most of their web applications: they want to know how to work the things in…

> Bootstrap gives us a sane, standard look and feel for the web, which is a good thing. NO. It is NOT a good thing. When it comes to visual design, things are supposed to look different. Twitter is meant to look different than Facebook and facebook should not look like Amazon. That's how you create mind-space . Bootstrap kills that - they all just look the same. I can't remember name of one site that was made with Bo…

To clear few things up lets discuss why Bootstrap is here.

Bootstrap should be taken as a base where from we can start building our applications right away while being real agile cause it provides us with mostly used design patterns and interactions which if we require can differ from in our design iterations (!imp). So again its essentially a framework providing some conventional patterns for development which I presume is bit like convention over configuration paradigm.

I would agree with the point that visual style matters as its is something which will molds into your brand identity and must be unique as all products are unique in one way or other. So yes its really a fail when most of the developers choose to maintain same Visual style in their sites which is to me is an utter disrespect of brand identity and something that must be avoided.

>Consistency is good for usability. Again, Button should look like a button, but not so much like other site that user confuses your site with someone else's.

As far as Usability is concerned to my understanding it is not affected in any way by fact that 2 sites have visually similar buttons but it is rather defined on the basis of content they provide and how it is presented(!imp). Difference between usability and visual appearance is quite understood I guess.

You might want to consider reading this post by Dave Winer "Why Bootstrap might be very important" http://scripting.com/stories/2012/03/07/whyBootstrapMightBeV... and Twitter Devblog - A brief history https://dev.twitter.com/blog/bootstrap-twitter

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#118
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some things I really don't. Think internal tooling and such.

Even internal tooling should be nice to use.

Of course! Which is why Bootstrap is such a godsend for it. It just doesn't need to have an impressive innovative design.

Re: Great, Another Bootstrap Site

#119
You have fallen into the common trap of seeing apps through developers' eyes. Please consider that almost no one in the world has heard of Bootstrap. Though it's captured our mindshare as developers, most of our users will not know nor care.

Basically none of the general public will say "Hey, this is a Bootstrap'ed application, I'm not using it." They just do not know nor care what Bootstrap is. If it looks professional and works as they expect, they will be happy.

Post reply on HN