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Installing Debian bookworm without systemd

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Re: Installing Debian bookworm without systemd

#2

Post by ttfkam »

It's been fashionable to hate on systemd, but I definitely prefer it to the hodgepodge of inconsistent init scripts, logging hacks, and bespoke process monitors that preceded it.

init.d was familiar to graybeards (like myself), but I'm loathe to consider them a superior solution.

Re: Installing Debian bookworm without systemd

#3

Post by tetris11 »

ttfkam wrote: post #2

It's been fashionable to hate on systemd, but I definitely prefer it to the hodgepodge of inconsistent init scripts, logging hacks, and bespoke process monitors that preceded it. init.d was familiar to graybeards (like myself), but I'm loathe to consider them a superior solution.

I started on initrc but came to maturity on systemd, and though systemd does simplify the process of inspecting running tasks, its sheer lack-of-fun of getting those processes running in the first place always puts me off hacking my system to better suit my whims.

It forces you to think of stability instead of creativity, and that might be great for people who value predictable things in their lives, but it stands rigidly in the way of fun.

Re: Installing Debian bookworm without systemd

#4

Post by TekMol »

I hate systemd with a passion, but I won't fiddle with Debian to get rid of it.

I would love if a major distro emerges which works with human-readable scripts and logs and stays away from any "binary" formats for system configuration and logging.

Re: Installing Debian bookworm without systemd

#5

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

tetris11 wrote: post #3
ttfkam wrote: post #2

It's been fashionable to hate on systemd, but I definitely prefer it to the hodgepodge of inconsistent init scripts, logging hacks, and bespoke process monitors that preceded it. init.d was familiar to graybeards (like myself), but I'm loathe to consider them a superior solution.

I started on initrc but came to maturity on systemd, and though systemd does simplify the process of inspecting running tasks, its sheer lack-of-fun of getting those processes running in the first place always puts me off hacking my system to better suit my whims. It forces you to think of stability instead of creativity, and that might be great for people who value predictable things in their lives, but it stands ri…

It’s an init system and a process manager. How exactly can it be fun?

Technically, I guess it’s interesting to design if you are an expert but as a user, having to use creativity is the last thing I want from low level pieces of my OS. If you want to tinker with OS design, you can always install Minix in a VM.

Re: Installing Debian bookworm without systemd

#7

Post by evronm »

TekMol wrote: post #4

I hate systemd with a passion, but I won't fiddle with Debian to get rid of it. I would love if a major distro emerges which works with human-readable scripts and logs and stays away from any "binary" formats for system configuration and logging.

Amen! I would happily contribute both time and funds to such an effort.

Re: Installing Debian bookworm without systemd

#8

Post by enriquto »

TekMol wrote: post #4

I hate systemd with a passion, but I won't fiddle with Debian to get rid of it. I would love if a major distro emerges which works with human-readable scripts and logs and stays away from any "binary" formats for system configuration and logging.

> I would love if a major distro emerges

Good news for you! You have slackware [0], void [1] and alpine [3], which are widely-used non-systemd distributions with sane scripts. They are well-maintained rolling releases which allow you to use much newer versions of the kernel and packages than your typical ubuntu/debian installs. I don't particularly care about systemd, but these distros are great by themselves!

[0] http://www.slackware.com/getslack/

[1] https://voidlinux.org/

[2] https://www.alpinelinux.org/

Re: Installing Debian bookworm without systemd

#9

Post by oarmstrong »

TekMol wrote: post #4

I hate systemd with a passion, but I won't fiddle with Debian to get rid of it. I would love if a major distro emerges which works with human-readable scripts and logs and stays away from any "binary" formats for system configuration and logging.

Obviously it’s a different OS and possibly isn’t relevant to you but I’ve found solace in OpenBSD (and other BSDs) in the search of “simplicity” of “the old days”.

Re: Installing Debian bookworm without systemd

#10

Post by jjoonathan »

ttfkam wrote: post #2

It's been fashionable to hate on systemd, but I definitely prefer it to the hodgepodge of inconsistent init scripts, logging hacks, and bespoke process monitors that preceded it. init.d was familiar to graybeards (like myself), but I'm loathe to consider them a superior solution.

100%. My toes hurt every time Lennart Poettering steps on them, but every time I dig into the "why" it turns out to not only have been a good reason but a couldn't have worked any other way reason. If someone hadn't dragged Linux kicking and screaming into the 21st century, the arbitrary choices made in the definition of a config file format 50 years ago would cripple the ability to deliver basic features 50 years later in a manner that was robust/isolated/performant/etc.
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