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The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

nature.com

11–20 of 74 posts

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#11

And the wars haven't started yet. Soon though. Driving your electric car straight to hell on a road paved with feelings.

Ukraine certainly is rich in minerals (and food production):

https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/en/industries/mining/#:~:text=U....

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#12

That’s the worst part of the AI race and “clean” electric cars. Behind the scenes the destruction they cause is more than you can imagine. We think electric cars and GPUs are pushing us ahead. But in reality we are driving the wedge in deeper. I’m afraid where we end up is like James Hansen said about fossil fuels, but relevant in general, with a "different, practically uninhabitable planet" by triggering a "low-end…

EVs, while undeniably more efficient, seem very good at abstracting the costs away from the end user. Pair this with autonomy that reduces friction but has its own associated costs and I'm afraid that the increase in use will eclipse the gains in efficiency, leading to a Jevon's Paradox where the overall consumption increases.

The costs of cars and oil are already thoroughly abstracted away.

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#13
It's good news if you're in Maine:

Gem Hunters Found the Lithium America Needs. Maine Won’t Let Them Dig It Up

https://time.com/6294818/lithium-mining-us-maine/

not so good news if you're indigenous:

Tribes object. But a federal ruling approves construction of the largest lithium mine

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/17/1188204958/tribes-object-fede...

A mining company is hunting for lithium, right on the edge of wildlife refuge

https://phys.org/news/2023-07-company-lithium-edge-wildlife-...

and, of course, it's not just Lithium - Copper trumps sacred land:

Battle for Oak Flat: How Apache opposition to a copper mine became a religious liberty test

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-oak-flat-apache-opposition-cop...

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#14

That’s the worst part of the AI race and “clean” electric cars. Behind the scenes the destruction they cause is more than you can imagine. We think electric cars and GPUs are pushing us ahead. But in reality we are driving the wedge in deeper. I’m afraid where we end up is like James Hansen said about fossil fuels, but relevant in general, with a "different, practically uninhabitable planet" by triggering a "low-end…

EVs, while undeniably more efficient, seem very good at abstracting the costs away from the end user. Pair this with autonomy that reduces friction but has its own associated costs and I'm afraid that the increase in use will eclipse the gains in efficiency, leading to a Jevon's Paradox where the overall consumption increases.

> abstracting the costs away from the end user.

The vast majority of costs are already abstracted away. When you drive to work, do you think about the massive environmental cost of all the concrete and steel that went into building the roads and bridges that you drive over?

Yet those costs, which nobody talks about, are of similar scale to the environmental costs of all cars.

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#15

And the wars haven't started yet. Soon though. Driving your electric car straight to hell on a road paved with feelings.

If only we knew how to build things so you didn't need a 2000kg metal box to go buy a packet of crisps.

Sorry, VanMoof folded, now the only other option for me to travel like a citizen of the 21st century is gone. Back into my electrified F150 I guess...

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#16

That’s the worst part of the AI race and “clean” electric cars. Behind the scenes the destruction they cause is more than you can imagine. We think electric cars and GPUs are pushing us ahead. But in reality we are driving the wedge in deeper. I’m afraid where we end up is like James Hansen said about fossil fuels, but relevant in general, with a "different, practically uninhabitable planet" by triggering a "low-end…

EVs, while undeniably more efficient, seem very good at abstracting the costs away from the end user. Pair this with autonomy that reduces friction but has its own associated costs and I'm afraid that the increase in use will eclipse the gains in efficiency, leading to a Jevon's Paradox where the overall consumption increases.

This is why every serious plan for reducing transportation emissions also includes a significant decrease in Vehicle Miles Traveled. It’s not enough to keep driving everywhere, but in electric cars instead.

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#17

That’s the worst part of the AI race and “clean” electric cars. Behind the scenes the destruction they cause is more than you can imagine. We think electric cars and GPUs are pushing us ahead. But in reality we are driving the wedge in deeper. I’m afraid where we end up is like James Hansen said about fossil fuels, but relevant in general, with a "different, practically uninhabitable planet" by triggering a "low-end…

Electric cars are helping, but maybe not as much one can be lead to believe. The biggest danger about them is possibly that people may believe they are a big step forward. They are an important but rather small step forward. Electric cars will reduce demand for gasoline. Some people say this won't affect how much oil is pumped out of the ground, because we still need the other fractions. That's not exactly the case t…

I thought the fractions were relatively straightforward to convert to balance demand? I don't really have good intuition for the economics of it though.

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#18

And the wars haven't started yet. Soon though. Driving your electric car straight to hell on a road paved with feelings.

Several counter points:

- singling out electrical vehicles is a bit disingenuous; there are lots of other consumers of rare earths. E.g. combustion engines have lots of exotic things on board and cobalt is used in oil refining. Lots of other industries use exotic minerals.

- A lot of this stuff can be recycled and already is. Especially valuable commodities used in batteries.

- There are alternate battery chemistries already being used in electric cars that have a lot less exotic materials. LFP batteries use no cobalt. Sodium ion batteries use no cobalt or lithium. Likewise, Tesla announced new engines that don't depend on rare earths a few montsh ago.

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#19
I’m interested in how this editorial got written. It’s not attributed to anyone and the language and perspective seem to me to be CCP talking points.

“Sustainability, equity and security are all at risk in the rush to break China’s dominance over their production.”

- I can think of one entity which wouldn’t want China’s dominance of rare earth production broken and it’s not the DRC.

“China’s ascendancy is the result of forward thinking by the country’s leadership”

- Seems strangely flattering since it doesn’t seem like it adds anything to the arguments or the context.

“it is not in the interests of any nation to partner with just one other country or group of countries”

- I believe this is explicitly a CCP talking point (link below for reference). Obviously, other people might say it but it seems sort of… suspect? Like the article purports to make a moralistic claim about exploitation and then goes into pure realpolitik. In my opinion that’s the sort of thing you’d only say if you were wearing social justice as a mask and didn’t actually believe in it yourself.

https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/wjbxw/202302/t20230220_1102...

Re: The global fight for critical minerals is costly and damaging

#20

And the wars haven't started yet. Soon though. Driving your electric car straight to hell on a road paved with feelings.

While it would be nice if everyone could use a bicycle instead, unfortunately people are really stubborn about hanging on to their cars.
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