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Llama 2

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Re: Llama 2

#651
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPT-4 is not a pure LLM. It also accepts image inputs. There's other stuff "going on in there" in a GPT model than just linguistic analysis — and those other "facilities" of the model can potentially serve the needs of doing math better than the language parts can. But presuming that wasn't the critical point you wanted to make: Like I said, a language model can know that "1" "is less than" "2" — and it can also know…

> GPT-4 is not a pure LLM I’ve looked a bit into the GPT architecture and haven’t seen anything suggesting it’s doing special-case experts for maths. It has MoE over 16 language models, and an image modality bolted on. If you have any evidence that there is a separate trained logic/math model I’d love to see that, as it would be interesting. (I don’t recall reading anything like that in the GPT papers for example, an…

> haven’t seen anything suggesting it’s doing special-case experts for maths

I didn't say it is. I said it is at least trained on images, which means it has a visual processing layer. I then mentioned that in humans, the visual sensory memory used for persistence-of-vision — along with the higher-level abstract positional memory used for navigation and not tripping on tree roots — has been shown to be active when doing arithmetic; and that this is suggestive of the visual field being used to "outsource" positional/sequencing tracking for numbers.

My implicit hypothesis (that I didn't want to say explicitly, because I'm not an ML researcher and I have no idea how to even begin to determine the truth-value of this) is that the GPT architecture is able to be as numerate as it is, vs. other pure text-in-text-out language models, because it's reusing the generalized visual field it evolved to map images into tokens, as a within-inference-step working memory for holding absolute token positioning meta-information. (Or, to put that in human terms: it's visualizing the numbers.)

> But it’s not required for basic numeracy, “tricks” as you put it, or whatever else GPT has learned, can objectively get us to median human performance.

No — as the median human (with a pencil and paper) can do simple arithmetic on arbitrarily large numbers.

The difference between "memorizing a bunch of tables" and numeracy is that numeracy is a knowledge of algorithms, not a memorization of truth tables; it a set of skills that can be applied to never-before-seen mathematical objects to yield correct answers. You can ask a human to compare two 800-digit numbers, or add them together, and they'll be able to do it, one step at a time.

As far as I know, GPT does not have the "skill" of numeracy in the sense of being able to do even simple arithmetic on unbounded-length numbers. And I don't mean the boring thing (that it has a bounded context window, so the number has to fit in there); I mean that it fails at adding two numbers when you start to get up to even just e.g. 64-digit numbers. It starts doing things like (seemingly) breaking the numbers down into sub-sequences and independently adding them up, but then forgetting to carry between the sub-sequences, or even forgetting which order the aggregates of the sub-sequences should be put back together in.

It seems very apparent to me, after much experimentation, that GPT models are just trying to treat numbers as a finite set of objects (maybe 100K-or-so?), each with a set of baked-in properties and relationships — plus a set of logically unsound rules they've derived for breaking large numbers down into small numbers, and putting small numbers back together into large numbers. These models are, in other words, using language skills (memorization of properties; adjective grouping; analogy) to pretend to do math — to cargo cult a symbolic-manipulation process they don't understand, in the hopes of at least looking like they're doing it correctly — but that's not the same as actually applying the scalable process of arithmetic to an arbitrary number.

An adult who "did math" this way, would be described as "someone who never learned to do math." And they would, indeed, be considered innumerate. (Could they do their taxes? Split a bill? Make change? Determine which of two products where one is per-lb and the other is per-each has the better value? No? Then they can't get by in society. That's innumeracy!)

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But also — to pop the context here: we're not talking about GPT. We're talking about a different language model (Llama 2), that's very likely strictly worse than any of the GPT models are at math (though I'd be intrigued to be proven wrong.) I assert this because, as I said above, I believe that GPT is as numerate as it is because of its visual sensory field — which the Llama models don't have. Thus my initial assertion: if even a multi-modal language model like GPT isn't close to full numeracy, then a pure language model has no chance at even vaguely simulating numeracy. And that that's why the OP is seeing the errors they're seeing.

Re: Llama 2

#654

Another AI model pretending to be open source, when it's licence violates point 5 and 6 of the open source definition.

I genuinely have no idea what N-Point definition of open source you’re using.

The term “open source” doesn’t have a singular definition. I liked the comment somewhere in this thread that if you stuck 5 HN users in a room you’d get 12 definitions for open source.

Sounds like people need to come with more precise terms like “GNU Open Source” or similar. Because at this point we’ve gone too far and there will never be a singular definition for “open source”.

Re: Llama 2

#655
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering how do people compare different models? I've been trying chatGPT 3.5, bing chat (chatgpt 4 I believe?), and bard, and now this one, and I'm not sure if there's a noticeable difference in terms of "this is better"

Try the Chat Arena with ELO ratings based on end user side by side blind tests. It run out of UC Berkley by lmsys the same team that released Vicuna. https://arena.lmsys.org/

This is awesome! So basically GPT-4 is the winner far ahead of alternatives. I don't see Bard in the ranking though

Re: Llama 2

#656
post #20

Another non-open source license. Getting better but don't let anyone tell you this is open source. http://marble.onl/posts/software-licenses-masquerading-as-op...

On HN, I really expected better of people. Why does everybody think this is open source? Every third comments is about how it's open source, but it's not Does everyone also think OpenAI is open source? Or a non-profit? Does putting open in the name just mean you're going to love it?

You have to request to get access to the code, so I think everyone understands that it's not open source

Re: Llama 2

#657

I filled the form about an hour ago and got the download link 15 mins ago. Download is ongoing. Direct link to request access form: https://ai.meta.com/resources/models-and-libraries/llama-dow... Direct link to request access on Hugging Face (use the same email): https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Llama-2-70b-chat-hf Direct link to repo: https://github.com/facebookresearch/llama Once you get a link to download on emai…

How big is it?

Re: Llama 2

#658

From a modeling perspective, I am impressed with the effects of training on 2T tokens rather than 1T. Seems like this was able to get LLAMA v2 7b param models equivalent to LLAMA v1's 13b performance, and the 13b similar to 30b. I wonder how far this can be scaled up - if it can, we can get powerful models on consumer GPUs that are easy to fine tune with QLORA. A RTX 4090 can serve an 8-bit quantized 13b parameter mo…

At some point, higher quality tokens will be far more important than more tokens. No telling how much junk is in that 2T. But I wonder if data augmentations could help? For instance, ask LLaMA 70B to reword everything in a dataset, and you can train over the same data multiple times without repeats.

You are totally right - both more and better matters. There are many good papers on the importance of data quality, Textbooks Are All You Need is one that comes to mind - https://arxiv.org/abs/2306.11644

Re: Llama 2

#659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hosted chat API here Very strange: When I turn the temperature to 1.25 to 1.5 I get much more interesting responses, but they are very ungrammatical with missing punctuation, misspelled words, dropped linking/transition words, etc. When I try out finer gradations converging on 1 from > 1 and 1 are much more free form, and increasingly outright chaotic and incomprehensible at > 1.5.

Isn't that pretty much expected?

In other models I definitely get wider responses with higher temperature, hallucinations too, but not a breakdown in structure with endless sentences, few line breaks, poor spellings and grammar, etc. Though I've not tested for such things systematically-- this is the first time I've notices this sort of behavior in a model.

Re: Llama 2

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused, fine-tuning is training. How is that not leakage? I'm hesitant to call them researchers, they are employees of a for-profit company trying to meet investor expectations.

1.You train on the kind of problems you want to solve. you don't report numbers that evaluate performance based on examples it trained on. Datasets will typically have splits, one for training and another for testing. 2. Open ai is capped profit. They are also not a publicly traded company. researchers are researchers regardless of who they work for. Training on test data is especially stupid for commercial applicati…

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