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Britain Is a Developing Country

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Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#171

Post by nine_k »

Tycho wrote: post #161
retrac98 wrote: post #20

Britain isn’t a developing country, it’s a regressing one. Public services and government that used to work well now don’t, and opportunities that everyday folk used to have they now don’t. It’s still a nice place if you’re in a good career, but the long term prospects don’t look good.

UK has the highest real GDP growth among its European peers since 2010.

The UK may be still high up, but the problem is the apparent downward trend.

The whole point, as I understand it, is to research what happens in the (still) rich and advanced nations which (slowly) lose their riches and advancements.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#172

Post by gumballindie »

ajuc wrote: post #167
rchaud wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Been to Poland recently? It's... kinda nice! 2 decades of EU largesse and cross-Europe migrant remittances will do that. Does the UK have a similar windfall coming?

I'm from Poland, I've worked for UK company for several years and lived there from time to time. I disagree with the article main thesis. UK will still be more wealthy in 30 years, simply because wealth and GDP is not the same. Country wealth is a portion of each years' GDP accumulated over centuries - so Poland has decades to go even accounting for the depreciation of money and old infrastructure). People focus on G…

> When Poland transformed from communism to capitalism most people had savings for less than a month. Nobody was rich. You can't do a startup or a company if you start starving after 1 month without income.

Ok, but that's modern britain. Millions of people can't save money and are far from rich. Plenty will starve after one month of no income. News reports seem to indicate quite a few already do even if they are employed.

> In 90s it was impossible for 99.9% of the population.

99% of the british or western population doesn't start a startup either. That's why people resent the 1%. The main reason people in east europe don't have the culture of starting startups is due to the communist model that supressed the natural human tendency of doing trade and innovation. It's simple as that. Now that that's gone, Poland and the rest of the former bloc, are acquiring a taste for it.

You are right about wealth accumulation though. That's why countries such as Italy or Greece for instance seem developed. Not having had a war in a long time, they were able to build their infrastructure and benefit from it. Let alone Britain that managed to accumulate wealth, by means we all know. Now that the same means can't be employed it would appear that a long, cold, period of decline lies ahead. Let's see how well these countries can handle the sea of change about to come. I bet they won't be as resilient and determined as, say Poland, which only as recently as 30 years became free and achieved so much. To put it into perspective you are probably older than your country was free.

West Europe lacks that determination. The US and East Europe (and a few others) have it. The future, I believe, belongs to them.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#173

Post by daedrdev »

Xophmeister wrote: post #38

* Annual energy use per person in the US is 77,000 kWh; in the UK it’s 30,000 kWh. * Annual electricity generation per person is 12,700 kWh; in the UK it’s 4,800 kWh. Consuming/generating less energy is a good thing, no? If we presume energy is the limiting factor, then the other bullet points suddenly look a little different. For example, productivity: US $0.96/MWh²; UK $1.65/MWh².

Many people are poor and don't consume the energy they idealy would in order to live a good life.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#174

Post by nunez »

I found this funny:

> Or, as Mike Bird pointed out, a car wash manager at an Alabama Buc-ees, a chain of gas stations and grocery stores, earns more ($125k/year) than THREE median UK salaries.

Buc-ee's has a hardcore conservative Christian workplace culture (bested by Chick-Fil-A), but they pay their people well. They also give their employees a 401(k) and (terrible, compared to the UK) vacation time!

Also, everyone loves to dunk on Mississippi, Alabama, and WV (and it is deserved), but Mississippi is a moderately large oil state, Alabama has a sizable military industry and WV is still big on coal and energy.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#175

Post by sirsinsalot »

ecshafer wrote: post #30

Growing up I assumed the UK was pretty rich. But then when you look at the stats, the UK is about as wealthy as Mississippi, one of the poorest states. Learning that people with college degrees in the UK make 25k GBP, and that is considered good, sure isn't that bad when GBP was worth 2x USD. But people are living in London for those salaries. The big expensive cities in the US, like NYC pay you much more to compensa…

Nobody I know in the UK considers £25k "good" salary. That's an entry level salary for most industry and profession.

Hell, the legal minimum wage annualizes to £20k

Also you can't compare industry the way you are. There are LOTS of individual plumbers,electricians,... in the UK making £100k-£200k+ ... I know a few of them. It is a running joke how much the trades get paid. I know a window cleaner that makes £500k running a window cleaning business.

That's the same everywhere.

I'm also sure there are people in New York, NY struggling to afford a tiny one bed apartment ... just like London.

I'm not defending the UK, I am attacking your poor reasoning.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#176

Post by jbjbjbjb »

Tycho wrote: post #161
retrac98 wrote: post #20

Britain isn’t a developing country, it’s a regressing one. Public services and government that used to work well now don’t, and opportunities that everyday folk used to have they now don’t. It’s still a nice place if you’re in a good career, but the long term prospects don’t look good.

UK has the highest real GDP growth among its European peers since 2010.

The whole of Europe is on the decline

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#177

Post by jbjbjbjb »

dahfizz wrote: post #92

> My claim is that the UK is now a lot more like Poland than it is like the United States in terms of the kinds of growth it needs to do – driven by improved use of existing technology and inputs, and accumulation of capital, rather than driven primarily by technological advancement. The author goes on to never support this thesis, and instead complains about British politics and that UK growth isn't quite as fast as…

I feel like I agree with some conclusions but the lack of evidence and abundance of hyperbole make for a poor blog post. Going by his logic we’d be left with the USA as the only developed country.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#178

Post by xk_id »

aetherson wrote: post #44
crop_rotation wrote: post #6

Does the UK have anything going for it? It is very hard for me to see the UK having a better quality of life in future than they had in the past. Not being part of the EU means they will mostly be squeezed in trade negotiations. And the UK does not have any industry going for it, so sooner or later the living standards would catch up with the rest of the developing world at the middle.

This seems like a deeply off-the-wall take. Why would the UKs living standards increase? Because the world continues to get richer. Is the UK going to regress to developing world status? That's a heck of a claim. Has any country that was among the richest in the world regressed to developing nation status? This is supposed to happen on the basis of being marginally disadvantaged in trade negotiations? Get real. This…

> Get real. This is sentiment because people are mad that the UK rejected their political beliefs.

One of the most important assets of british people used to be their national brand; it was never an accurate image of who they were as people, but the public relations carefully orchestrated by their government was effective on the international stage. Perhaps the big favour Farage did to the world was to encourage british people to speak up and show everyone what was really behind the so called exceptionalism and the superficial veneer of manners. However, it was also the irreversible deterioration of their image; and I’m not sure british people should celebrate the fact that they shocked and offended the international audience with their beliefs and values.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#179

Post by nradov »

avgcorrection wrote: post #81
whymauri wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact my dad grew up in Venezuela when it was the 4th wealthiest nation in the world per capita (granted, Europe was recovering from WW2) blows my mind. It was still top 20 by the 70s. [0] [0] https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/GDP-...

It’s hard to be a petronation in the Americas.

It's only hard to be a "petronation" if you make it hard. The USA produces more oil and natural gas than any other country in the world, and we seem to be doing well enough. Similar for Canada.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-scale-of-gl...

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#180

Post by nradov »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #106
aetherson wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that if the UK, for example, is overthrown by/elects a Maoist government or something equally crazy, then sure, they could flush their economy down the toilet. I don't think that "being out of the EU" is in the same category.

The problem is not 'being out of the EU' by itself, its the fact: 1 - for the past 7 years, the government was doing nothing except infighting around brexit. Things like economic policy have been neglected. Straighforward non-political ssues, like the fact that wind farms wait for 10 years to be connected to the grid, are unaddressed. 2 - the current leadership is braindead. They have spent the past few months discus…

Why can't they just delete certain laws? At some historical point in time that law didn't exist, and most people somehow managed so survive. In a Common Law system, as long as something isn't explicitly illegal then it's legal.
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