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Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

noahpinion.blog

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Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#391

This is the way. Teach kids more, not less. Ask more of them, not less. If you need to lengthen the school day and school year to do so, do it. Do it now. "So what should we do instead? Dallas came up with an answer: Teach kids more math instead of teaching them less. In 2019, Dallas Independent School District implemented a new equity policy that encouraged many more people to take honors math classes: Many capable…

> with the goal of improving opportunity for all I'm chatting with some friends who are parents in the Bay Area. Their admittedly very Californian response is that at least this should reduce competition for college spots. (Their kids are obviously going to get tutoring.)

I'm not sure it will — there are still plenty of schools elsewhere that offer advanced coursework, and their graduates can more than fill the freshman class of elite colleges.

For example, I grew up in Sacramento, and our public schools had a tracked program from 2nd grade. Pretty much all of us took algebra/geometry in middle school, and those who were advanced were taking precalc or calc by 9th grade. It has been a disappointing experience to learn that in the heart of silicon valley, 30+ years later, the public schools have less to offer in terms of differentiated learning and accelerated education.

BTW, I have also been talking with Bay Area parents about this, including some HNers. Would love to chat with you/your friends to know how folks are sorting this out. We've had some success and are always looking to help others do the same. Contact info in profile.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#392
This seems such an obvious thing to me, and I'm not even in the field of Education. I agree with everything the writer wrote and found myself nodding repeatedly, thinking, it's obvious.

So why can't our so-called professionals see this too? Taking away learning opportunities from kids does them no good!

I remember once when I was in 9th grade and my elder brother was a sophomore in college. I found a textbook of his titled "Matrices and Determinants" (or something to that effect), for one of his courses. I picked it up and started reading it. After a few pages I had some questions, asked my dad. He didn't blink and just helped me out. Soon I had finished a couple of chapters and had learned more about matrices, determinants, etc. than I would ever learn in High School. Nobody told me not to read it; they just helped me along whenever I needed the help.

I can't even imagine how toxic this discouragement would be to a curious mind!

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#393

Does anyone have a less biased article about this to tell if this is actually a thing? I remember the controversy over Common Core Math and I realized a lot of people complaining about it weren't very good at math and their criticism was more a reflection of that than valid criticism. Now it's hard to believe when people complain about something when education is involved.

Same, I'm dubious of anything that doesn't directly quote CA's own docs about the new standards. Instead the quotes are from random people complaining about it.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#394
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that grades matter for getting into college, but this mindset is viscerally horrifying to me. It almost reads to me as: "What if people were appropriately challenged and learned more? Wouldn't that be horrible?" Grade inflation is a terrible thing, even if it is likely an intractable problem because of the incentives that go into it.

I wouldn't advocate for grade inflation, and there's no indication here that's what happened. I would advocate for analyzing which types of students were well-served by the change, taking into account their learning and the effect on their GPA. I would expect that it wouldn't be that difficult to select kids (perhaps based on prior performance in math classes, or overall GPA) to opt them into the class. This would be…

> select kids (perhaps based on prior performance in math classes, or overall GPA) to opt them into the class.

That's how it works now, pretty much everywhere. Your 7th grade teacher recommends you to take the 8th grade algebra class based on your performance (or, at least, their interpretation of your performance)

The question is, where do you draw the line that qualifies someone to take 8th grade algebra? Who do you let in when there is 1 seat left and 3 eligible students to fill that seat? How do you make sure that the grades you are using to determine who makes the cut are accurately measuring mathematical ability of the students and not biased in some other way?

I'm not advocating for either the California or the Dallas solution to this problem, but both those school districts have identified that letting the 7th grade teachers make this placement decisions is a problem.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was you wonder if a foreign state adversary is influencing us to stupify our next generation. I'll keep my comments civil here but its pretty obvious who is behind this.

If it's all that obvious, you should have no problem naming who's behind this and providing evidence to support your claim, rather than merely fearmongering to no useful end.

I don't know. These "equity" arguments are indistinguishable from a deliberate attack.... the sort of attack you'd expect from a country that, having been unable to either compete with the West or conquer it, is well-known to have resorted to memetic warfare.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#396
The author is looking at the topic from a quite narrow perspective. The reasoning 'why' what he observed is happening could be due many other reasons. I think he also misunderstood some fundamental reasons why school exists in the first place, such as functioning as a "day care" for bigger kids allowing parents to work.

The article is based on an assumption of why something was done. It is positioned in a way that it immediately invokes a reaction "how can they be this stupid". But... What if that is not what those who made these decisions actually think? If he just assumes that is the case?

I'm no expert, but maybe it would help here to do a thought experiment of "what I might be missing from the puzzle?".

Lack of resources is one thing that was mentioned here. It is not that they drop the class and do nothing else. So what was the alternative? Where are the resources put now?

I'm quite sure there are other things we are missing too. I'd like to step into those people's shoes who are making the decisions to understand better why they chose what they chose, instead of assuming what they think.

Of course, if the goal is to actually improve equality, it is really stupid. Somehow I just doubt people are that dumb. There must be something more to it that I'm missing.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#397

This is the way. Teach kids more, not less. Ask more of them, not less. If you need to lengthen the school day and school year to do so, do it. Do it now. "So what should we do instead? Dallas came up with an answer: Teach kids more math instead of teaching them less. In 2019, Dallas Independent School District implemented a new equity policy that encouraged many more people to take honors math classes: Many capable…

Does putting marginal students in advanced classes actually help them?

[deleted]

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#398
I went to public school in the 2000s in South Florida and there were after school programs hosted at the schools to help with all sorts of subjects. Do these school districts not provide these services anymore?

Also, in high school & college I tutored people in mathematics (algebra and pre-calc usually). What I found is that everybody can learn anything (I truly believe this), they just need help and for people to be patient with them. What saddens me about this policy is that:

1. It feels like its giving up on students. Instead of trying to help them they're just throwing their hands up.

2. It also feels like a very lazy and uncreative solution. let's assume there are people who just can't do math. Why not create tracks for them to succeed in topics they are good at and create separate tracks for people good at math? It feels like the school districts are trying to fit everybody into the same bucket when maybe people should be put into different buckets. This is how it was in my public school system (gifted vs. honors vs. regular track) and nobody complained. Regardless of the political association (progressive or not) it feels very very lazy.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably needs to be said because of situations like that in Baltimore, Maryland. The city spends more than 97% of what other major school districts spend, and yet it's students are on average some of the worst performers: https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-ci...

Baltimore is a segregated, poverty-ridden, drug-addicted city. Try performing at or even caring in the slightest about schoolwork if your parents are uneducated junkies and you haven't eaten for a day or two.

[dead]

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#400
post #363

You can imagine the following perspective: - Most people don't need to learn calculus at all, and it's fine if the few weird students who do start when they get to college (maybe the advanced students can learn single-variable calculus in high school). - For pure signaling reasons, taking calculus in high school has become very important for college admissions. - In order to take calculus in high school, you need to…

>This is my best guess about the line of thinking that motivates these "no advanced math" policies. You've explained the thought process of the "reformers" fairly well, but there is another additional element that's important as well: a sizeable contingent of people believe that advanced math itself is intrinsically bad or negative. Usually this is either because math is fundamentally exclusionary in some core way, o…

At it's very foundation liberal ideology cracks pretty badly if "Everyone is born equally capable" is false.
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