Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity • Hacker News Board

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#281

Post by busterarm » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

duskwuff wrote: post #242

busterarm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Bobby Baptist's kids going to Jesus Is Lord Day School is assimilating those kids into their society at large and Jesus Is Lord Day School still needs to meet the curriculum and testing standards that any other school in the state has to. And more often than not those private schools are _exceeding_ the standard of the public education system. I spent years in both public and private schools. The worst part of pu…

> But Bobby Baptist's kids going to Jesus Is Lord Day School is assimilating those kids into their society at large No, I think you're missing the parent's point -- it's assimilating those students into a specific religious subculture whose beliefs and values may be at odds with civil society at large. (If you have trouble seeing this, try substituting "Jesus Is Lord Day School" in your head for some other implied re…

But that's exactly my point. Would you deny this same right to kids that attend Jewish day schools? Could you even argue for that without sounding like a massive bigot?

Religious people are part of your community and have the right to their religious identity and to be a member of your community. If they want a school just for them, you don't suffer for it.

Religion is not at odds with society. We're not the USSR. Religious freedom is an enshrined right in this country.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#282

Post by kaitai » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

cauch wrote: post #89

The author says > The idea that offering children fewer educational resources through the public school system will help the poor kids catch up with rich ones, or help the Black kids catch up with the White and Asian ones, is unsupported by any available evidence of which I am aware. I was wondering if some people are aware of studies supporting this strategy. I could try to dig them up, but I remember few studies de…

You are on to something here. The thing I'd contribute is that then we need teacher training to improve math teaching in the US. Math teaching in the US is often of poor quality, as teachers may not be trained well and are often not confident in their own mathematical ability. Curricula are often haphazard.

The US generally takes the approach that changing the curriculum or changing standards will change outcomes, but rarely invests in teacher quality, which would have very high impact (compare to Korea, Finland, etc.).

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#283

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

LexiMax wrote: post #224

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Places with public school vouchers as law allow said vouchers to be used at 100% religious schools This isn't a requirement for vouchers. You can simply state that religious schools aren't eligible.

What is the realistic likelyhood of this being mandated, given how many religious private schools there are and how much money they have to lobby with?

> What is the realistic likelyhood of this being mandated

Just under a third of Californian's aren't religious [1]. Nobody is proposing to ban religious schools.

If you can't swing it, make the choice local. Each county or whatever can vote on whether to permit religious vouchers. The Bay Area will ban it. The Central Coast won't. This remains better than the status quo. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-stu...

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#284

Post by avereveard » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:55 PM UTC

wolpoli wrote: post #72

jedmeyers wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people in positions of power are currently obsessed with achieving equality of outcomes (aka equity) and dumbing down to the lowest common denominator is an only working way to achieve that goal for large groups of people.

Are we going to see a transition to a pure pass/fail grading system then?

In many ways we're already at an always pass system.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#285

Post by whatwhaaaaat » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

pwthornton wrote: post #234

whatwhaaaaat wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What the hell is "trans ideology?" This is just a nonsense sentence.

The ideology that it is possible for a human male to transition to a human female (or the inverse).

Not everyone believes in this and that is ok. I choose to respect the wishes of adults around me for social cohesion. I draw the line when we’re talking about children.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#286

Post by bluGill » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

markus_zhang wrote: post #184

declan_roberts wrote: post #131

This is one of the many reasons we decided to homeschool, despite having a pretty good experience with public education. It's like a super power to be able to tailor education for your own children. You know their strengths and weaknesses better than anybody.

Just curious, how can we homeschool if we are not teachers ourselves. I understand the Math that's for sure, but I don't have the confidence to serve as a good Math teacher. How do you proceed if you are in the same shoes?

There are lots of home school resources and programs. Things range from sitting your kid in front of a video lecture to being the teacher yourself. Some programs are great some are just enough to satisfy the law that your kids are getting education. Frankly if you don't already know the above then you are not ready to wade through the mine field of homeschool. You need to figure out which programs are good and which are just marketing.

In the end though, while many homeschooled kids do well on tests, they all show the narrow mindedness that comes from never meeting someone who is different (religion, and political background are big ones here)

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#287

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

1MachineElf wrote: post #58

mydriasis wrote: post #33

> Guess what? Children are educable. If you invest the resources of the state in poor kids and underrepresented minorities, they will learn. It is shocking to me that this has to be said. What in the world...

It probably needs to be said because of situations like that in Baltimore, Maryland. The city spends more than 97% of what other major school districts spend, and yet it's students are on average some of the worst performers: https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-ci...

Baltimore is a segregated, poverty-ridden, drug-addicted city. Try performing at or even caring in the slightest about schoolwork if your parents are uneducated junkies and you haven't eaten for a day or two.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#288

Post by nsxwolf » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

tmaly wrote: post #235

nsxwolf wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you could fix the system, it would have been fixed by now. If you have a kid today, you have 5-6 years to fix the system before it starts failing them. Your kid will be grown before any meaningful change is made, and any harms caused by the current system will be fully baked in. If you have money, you have an escape hatch right now. Vouchers make that escape hatch available to more people. Public education doe…

Compare how much money US spends on average per student in public education verse other countries. How do students rank academically in US compared to other countries? Consider this If you look at the system without vouchers, there is no market mechanism to correct the situation everyone is complaining about. There are no incentives. Each year, more and more money is dumped into the system. If you introduce competiti…

Yes. If it were the case that public schools were universally regarded as great, and everyone felt well served by them, it would be right to be skeptical of private interests coming in and trying to capture some of that money for themselves. But we have the exact opposite of that situation.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#289

Post by b800h » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #260

b800h wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit of a weird position to take that you're in favour of schools doing indoctrination, just as long as it's away from the viewpoint you don't like. That's pretty authoritarian; seems to be on the rise these days.

> Bit of a weird position to take that you're in favour of schools doing indoctrination, just as long as it's away from the viewpoint you don't like. No, it's not. Society only works when people believe in a shared fiction, and when they stop believing it, things go completely to shit. I would absolutely oppose indoctrination into a bad shared fiction, just like a religious person would oppose indoctrination into a '…

Some people would just be in favour of the rights of parents to eductate their children however they like...

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#290

Post by declan_roberts » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

markus_zhang wrote: post #184

declan_roberts wrote: post #131

This is one of the many reasons we decided to homeschool, despite having a pretty good experience with public education. It's like a super power to be able to tailor education for your own children. You know their strengths and weaknesses better than anybody.

Just curious, how can we homeschool if we are not teachers ourselves. I understand the Math that's for sure, but I don't have the confidence to serve as a good Math teacher. How do you proceed if you are in the same shoes?

First of all understand it doesn't have to be all-or-nothing. Many homeschooling parents enroll in a part-time education co-op with other likeminded parents. I guarantee there's one near you right now. In these groups you essentially take turns teaching. There's almost always a parent there who is competent in an area where you lack expertise. It really just works out.

The late-game strategy that I see is enrolling in community college for advanced classes in math, physics, science, etc. In Washington state you can start this your junior year in a program called "Running Start" and it's free. At this point your homeschooling with that child is essentially over and they're taking college classes for college credit.